The Messed Up Origins of The Old Woman Who Lived in a Shoe

“A-loffeing” : possibly means lofeing/ lofering = sitting around or loitering. (Also, “gave them no bread”: loefing; “lived in a shoe”: loefering= puns intended).

Who does the giant shoe belong to? 'there were giants in those days...'

The version I grew up with went "she whipped them all soundly and sent them to bed" and it was an old Disney nursery rhyme book. The picture for this one was of ducks that resembled Donald Duck.

The rhyme I grew up with had her whipping then and sending them to bed without any bread. I was born in the mid 1970s. That was the version I grew up with

I think that a lot of these nursery rhymes had double meanings, (addressing both poverty and the king/parliament, for example), and I think it’s definitely possible that sometimes a word exists in the rhyme merely because it rhymes. Like, the “shoe” may have been just a rhyme with “do,” and to create a silly scenario that distracts from the fact it is actually poking fun at the king, which could land one in serious trouble in that time.

Not sorry that you dislike Christianity rhymes.

"Whipped them all soundly," is the way I learned it and it bothers me to this day. What did they do that she felt the need to whip them?

I know it as she whipped them all soundly and sent them to bed... there is also a part where she goes to the cupboard but the cupboard was bare... hence , no bread

I don't know if there is any correlation, but here in Appalachia, aloaffing means lying around being lazy. Alot of our hillbilly slang is derived from British and a lot is shit made up by old-timers with totally different meanings than elsewhere so who knows.

Gratuitous unrelated sponsorship. I find that nauseating.

I want to know where she got a shoe big enough for them all to live. Proof of giants, hmmm

I grew up learning the original version.

There was an old woman who lived in a butt-hole
Cursed to live there because of her bad soul
Cursed to live there throughout the ages
She still thought it better than living in her old dogs’ cages
The tunnel was her husband’s whom was evil as well
What a terrible fate they befell
To avoid this fate, do not fret
Just be kind to your lovely pet

May Jon and cups appreciate this rhyme
For now it is on the internet for all time

In my childhood (I'm 67), the rhyme was taught (American middle-class WASP) as "she whipped them all soundly and sent them to bed" Oh yes, and the no bread with their broth line as well. Hmmm, I wonder why it was somewhat different and not that long ago as alluded to here.

Oh and butthole ain't hard to rhyme. Cuff bowl, muff stole, trust role, hut knoll, rough soul, lust troll, or if you're down to stutter a syllable for a slant rhyme muzzle, cuddle, rubble, trouble.

No slant rhymes... see the first ones i came up with off top

I was about to give a gold star on your script writing... then i heard that sole-less pun.

So here's two ⭐️ 🌟

What I grew up w/:
Just a word or two different.

There was an old woman who lived in a shoe. She had so many children, she didn’t know what to do. She gave them some broth w/o any bread, and whipped them all soundly, and sent them to bed.

Lemme start by saying I love all your stuff. I like your respect of history and your dedication to truth, as best we can find it. I also like the way you fully explore theories that you don't necessarily think hold any water. It almost scares me to see the irreverence that history is given today and some peoples complete disregard of it.
I know that in several of your fairy tale origins episodes you have found it rather silly that simple nursery rhymes would have correlations to political policy or to be referencing the monarchy in England during earlier times. I can't think of one specifically at the moment, but I assume you must have encountered one or two that you agree may have done just that. I'm sure you have done the research on specific ones that you have traced back and, if you tend to rabbit-hole on topics like I sometimes do, must have encountered evidence of a fairly long standing tradition of mocking the monarchy and aristocracy through simple rhymes using terms and imagery that seems innocent and even child-oriented to escape repercussions for doing so. Much of it was never written down for two reasons, illiteracy and incrimination. The whole country might be saying it and passing it along, but if it was ever written down, the person who wrote it would catch all the repercussion. So, many, many of these criticisms of the monarchy and aristocracy were never, ever written down, the vast majority fading from memory after a time and only a tiny few managing to show up a hundred or so years later, in some form or another and be written down finally, the fear of punishment long past.
Unsurprisingly, several that DID get more traction had origins in the court jester. They, not only had a slightly better chance of being recorded, but had the Fool's Grace of being able to openly mock the king (at least SOME tolerated this) and both rhymes and childish imagery were hallmarks of the fools trade.
I actually think that this one, the old lady in the shoe, shows the characteristics of one. The shoe being the most obvious. Who lives in a shoe? It screams analogy right out the gate. It is saying something specific via metaphor, we just dont immediately recognize it as one would if they lived contemporarily to its first utterance. 'Had so many children' also hints at commentary because a person could only feasibly have a certain number biologically that to exceed that amount is... indicative of a second meaning. 'Broth and bread' is very much a reference to the status of a community. To have broth and bread was a way of saying the basic needs. Are your needs met? do you have broth and bread? Butter was considered posh somewhat. to have bread and butter meant you were doing pretty well. Who buttered your bread was who paid you, where your money came from or your status. and butter both sides your bread meant to have two masters or to say one thing and do another. But, i digress.
I respect your research and you are correct that without tangible evidence, written record, we have little proof, but when discussing a topic which is purposefully avoiding leaving record or evidence, that should be taken into consideration. The fact that certain things are NOW used by children as games and silliness or even in late 1700 and 1800's as childrens rhymes.... that doesnt mean that they were conceived of for children... some of the most bawdy and adult subjects were rhymed and sung. I think you might dismiss the notion of making political commentary through obscure rhymes a bit too easy. It sounds odd in todays world, but our 'common sense' only really is appropriate to our times.
I think you are already aware of all of this, it just surprised me when you sort of 'group dismissed' the idea of silly rhymes being about kings and queens.
Keep up the work, man. Cheers!

I don't think it was a man

Please sir I want some more. MORE??

Can you do a video of The Red Shoes

I see nothing wrong with the Christian version .It's sad that you felt nauseated.

Smelly butthole solo? Speak for yourself😂

So then why do we tie a bunch of shoes to the back of cars After the wedding For the newly wed couple to drive away?Is that supposed to represent how many children they're going to have?

I grew up with the version where she paddles them and sent them to bed.

Maybe it’s being born in the 70s but the misery rhyme I knew and was in my books growing up was: ‘there was an old woman who lived in a shoe, she had so many children she didn’t know what to do. She gave them some broth without any bread, spanked them all soundly, and sent them to bed.’ Which is far closer to the original.

Hey I'm probably really late (it IS Halloween, after all), but... is it possible that Row Row Row Your Boat has messed up origins?

I think you should do mess up origins of Coraline video because that's my favorite movie there's no movie that ever made me laugh at time the cat's voice is so good my only complaint from Coraline was that when my child was watching it it made her scream 200 times because the mother looks so scary in the other world of course

Honestly, I can’t blame her.

🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅🔅

I can't stop imagining the old woman and her children as mice. Who else could live in a shoe? Especially with that many people? Why is her husband never mentioned? Because a male mouse isn't really going to help with raising kids
I could see someone back in the day making a little nursery rhyme out of such a thing

I always heard the oldest one... broth, no bread, whipped them and sent them to bed.

There was an old woman, who lived in a shoe. She had so many children, she didn't know what to do. She gave them some broth without any bread and whipped them all soundly and send them to bed. (That's the version I knew growing up)

I heard the "spanked them all soundly and sent them to bed" (no mention of food) in the 60s-70. I never heard the tame one before.
I found my version (close) A book called,The Real Mother Goose, This is from the 70s.

In the British versions of the oldest of this rhyme
At the end..
" She beat ( or whipped) them all soundly & put them to bed "

There wasnt, Broth in name, in the early centuries so much as
Gruel which was a thin mixture of bread with warmed milk over it
Or a thin version of porridge.

Pottage was a thick vegetable soup which was more common to mid to upper class food
Many titles persons ate an evening meal of Pottage.

It was a known fact that smacked or bottom hitting ensured children would cry from their pain & cry themselves to
Sleep much earlier than hungry bellies would!
Most of the nursery rhymes had cruel or sinister back stories!
Thanks
🇬🇧👧

interesting as none of the versions you cited were the one I grew up with I wonder if there are regional variations both from country to country but within countries?

The version I grew up with is:-
There was an old woman who lived in a shoe
She had so many children she never knew what to do
She whipped them and beat them
and sent them to bed
with nothing to eat but vinegar and brown bread

There once was a old woman who lived in a shoe.
She had so many children, she didn't know what to do.
So she went to give them gruel, but the cupboard were bare;
And sent them to the slavers, with nary a care.

The first thing i thought when i heard "a-loffeing" was that they where laying around... you know dead

"Now would you believe me if I said there was an even darker version?"
Well, I certainly don't think you're going to spend the next nine minutes of the video staring at me.

Back in the early 70s...take that as you like...the version we had in our school issue book of rhymes for first graders to learn to read from, the third line was "she beat them all soundly and sent them to bed" but, the broth and no bread, her inability to make ends meet, etc, is the same. It has brought me to wonder, is there's a connection between the cobbler and and other ware shops and the redlight district. I wonder that because I have heard of a whorehouse being referred to as a shoe, once.

A long time ago “coffin” was interchangeable with box or casket. The lady could have been picking up cigars in a coffin but equally possible is pie or pie crust (please see Tasting History with Max Miller). Thanks for the video.

I have never heard the modern version of the rhyme that you read. The one I knew from childhood was: there was an old woman who lived in a shoe. She had so many children, she didn’t know what to do. She gave them some broth without any bread, then whipped them all soundly and sent them to bed.

There was an old woman
who lived in a shoe.
She had so many children
she didn't know what to do.
But try as she could
she could never detect
Which was the cause
and which the effect.

I had it that; She spanked them all soundly and sent them to bed.

She whipped them quite soundly and sent them to bed. Thats the version I knew from 1960's London

My mother’s mother was one of nine girls. Her mother was known to be totally crazy

Thanks Jon Solo, for absolutely destroying my childhood 😮😢...now, keep it up, You Legend 😅😂🎉❤🖖....

There was an old woman who lived in a shoe
With so many children she didn't know what to do
So she gave them some broth without any bread
Then spanked them all soundly and sent them to bed

That's the way I read it in my little book of nursery rhymes, and the way it was read to us in my first grade classroom. They wanted to make sure we understood that children should be beaten regularly, and how lucky we were to not be beaten at all. It's that old fashioned "make sure your kids know that they are worthless beings who should never know happiness or confidence. With the rise of atheism, that shit is finally becoming obsolete. Religion is all about control, after all. And you can't control children who think they deserve better lives. Hopefully, this current crop of trumptards is our country's last push for that kind of mindset. Once those simple jackoffs are dead, their collective misery will go with them. 🤞🤞

I think you’re unpleasant