Can You Set A Post In Gravel?

My father always watered the loose soil after we put posts in the ground. As long as you let it dry out it seemed to work it's way in and collapse any air pockets and compact rhe soil. Would be interesting to see if that works by itself or works to improve tamping. We'd add dirt, tamp, water, add dirt tamp water, etc.

If you'd get a post every time you say "gravel", you'd have a long fence.
Great video.

Enjoy your videos! How about a video that compares the cost of time/materials for cedar fence with wood posts/concrete vs Steel post(round or Trident) pounded into soil? I have a potential fence to build for neighbors and they want wood posts concrete but are open to alternatives (steel) if I can convince them. 2 fence companies have both trashed the metal posts idea and claim it's inferior. thanks! -brian

Long story short, setting post in gravel is as bad as setting it in dirt. Driven post will be marginally better in short term but will be just as poor holding power as backfilling with dirt. Im tired of these clickbait/interaction farming videos. We all know concrete is superior in every way in every climate. Stop trying to cut corners, do it right.

I've set huindreds of power line poles (35ft to 100ft tall) 6ft to 12ft deep, using 3/4" road base gravel. It is heavily mixed with fines. It compacts very well (we use hydraulic tamps), and really defends against leaning very well. I would not be afraid to build a fence line using the same 3/4" road base, so long as it gets tamped appropriately. Tampoing the backfill properly/adequately is probably the most important aspect.

For years I’ve roll tar on my post , bottom up 2 foot. That what I call treated.👍

If you dig a hole in clay, and then set the post with gravel, aren't you setting up a situation that could lead to standing water around the post after a good rain?
I know that water will drain out eventually, but isn't that the worst case scenario for wood to rot quickly? Periodic soaking and drying is worse than just wet always or dry always...
Just my thought, not an expert by any means...

When I was a kid (1950s) my dad and the neighbors all pitched in to build basket weave fences at our end of the cul de sac. They put nails in all 4 sides of the post before dropping it into the hole and back filling with the soil that came out of the hole. Then I think they used water to settle the soil and get more of the soil back into the hole.

Gravel is all we use in Canada.
1/4 to 3/4 crush.

The frost line is 6+ feet down so you can't dig a post that deep to pour concrete below frost (you can it just doesnt make sense to do it) We dig 4 feet down and the gravel prevents post heaving from freeze/thaw cycles.

How about a steel base attached to a fence post screwed down into concrete?

I prefer concrete/gravel mix.
Soil around here gets soupy in winter. Too soft.

Where do you get these long digging bars?

Drivers speeding up in the background as the kids in the back ask, "Why is that man humping that fence post"🤔

I've always just talked the dirt back into the hole, when I set the fence back when I was a kid more than 20 years ago it's still standing, no sway, sags it anything, I very rarely use concrete everything I've done hasn't rotted or anything

Thank you for the great videos. They confirm what I’ve learned over the years building round pressure-treated post fences with corral board on my property here along the Central Coast of CA since the early ‘80’s. I’m on an ancient sand dune so sandy soil. Over the years I’ve learned to just tamp the sand back around the post instead of using concrete. Eventually sets up firm. What I’ve learned, as pointed out in your video, is the pressure treatment is next to worthless over time under ground level. The last thing I have time for is replacing posts. I now buy a Copper Nathenate product at HD (Copper Green, about $25) then dilute it with diesel fuel and paint the lower portions of the post (or whole) several times and let it dry before use. Seems to help the post last considerably longer.

Driveway gravel. It's got fines. It hardens up like concrete (eventually). That's what I use around the sides. And 3/4 inch clean underneath for drainage.

Thanks for demonstrating , Mark! you explain things really well !

I wonder if ABC stone would have worked better. With all sizes of stone, it may pack better. It gets hard as rock on roads. I was trying to find your packing rod. What is it called? No luck at lowes or home depot. Thanks.

In my experience posts always rot off about 4-6 inches into the ground. That happens to be where most of the organic life in the soil presides so I’ve been tamping with native fill and then the last 8-10 inches I fill with fine gravel to keep the organic layer of the soil away form the post.

I HIGHLY recommend EVERYONE use LOTS of gravel. (Btw- I'm a gravel salesman).

I wonder if rock dust would work better.

I am a fan of doing this with residential light posts and mailboxes and fences. That way, if the post gets hit by a lawnmower or something, it doesn't bend/break the post. I can easily re-straighten it and tamp it down again.

unless you need a big weight to hold your post down, all concrete does is make it harder to get out when it rots off.

I predicted that the coarse round gravel would fail, but didn't guess the dirt would let go that easily. I crush native sandstone rock with a pointed bar around a concrete post. I've had some in for 10+ years. I wouldn't want to remove one.
Thanks for the teaching.

Excellent experiment. Backfilling with soil and a couple of cups of cement in sandy soils or lime in clay soils would be an interesting comparison, leaving the fill a little low, wetting off, and waiting a month. Driving was good idea, except you have to have a driver.
Other thought is going down slightly deeper, you may get concrete like results, cheaper and quicker than mixing....

My dad who passed in 2017 at 90 used to say about a post tamped with dirt, "boys, if you do it right It'll be like it grew there". Of course now days we'd be talking to someone like you about driving them. 🙂

gravel is better then "soil". recycled roadbase from the concrete recycle place is cheaper and packs great

Pea gravel? People might as well use ping pong balls 😂

Well... you short-changed me, but I'll give ya a Like anyway. :)
Thanks for doing all that work so I didn't have to. Cheers.

IMHO the point behind gravel /sand isto let water drain away from the post to make it last longer.

Seeing Mark set a post and then pulling it out makes me feel like reinstalling broken auto parts … but I’m glad he does!

Gravel is the best option in our area with our frost depth.

4x4 -4 ‘ down
6x6 - 6 ‘ down
3/4down gravel

If posts heave due to our cold winters and deep frost depths we are able to sledge the posts back down.

I approve of the bravery of posting a video with an unexpected ending. But I'm not sure why you're still investigating all these ways to put a wood post in the ground. Steel or go home.

Anyone who's done dirt work can tell you that your contention that you'll never get soil compacted as tight as it was naturally is completely false. Soil as it's found is call bank soil. Compacted soil can be 25 percent more compact(tighter) than bank soil. Missing this on a large excavation job could potentially cost a LOT of $ to bring in additional fill to make up for compaction.
You may have some dirt left over, but that's the displacement of the post itself.
Concrete is popular because is simply transfers the loads on the post over a much larger surface area that completely fills the voids and pockets of the hole.
The elephant in the room is that no fence will encounter a vertical upward load.
If a bad storm moves gravel set posts out of plumb, they can be easily tamped back in line. They won't go out of plumb in line with the fence(racking) because to move one, you have to move them all. Wind loads don't put much load on the line of the fence. The only deflection will be perpendicular to the fence line and easily remedied.

Plus, I think gravel would allow water to sit in that hole around the post and cause it to rot quicker

Thanks- I’ve always wondered about using gravel. I’d be tempted to throw in some fist-sized crushed rocks I think it would have held much better but who knows… 
For whatever it’s worth to relocate a fence I just pulled about 20 cedar posts in concrete that had been in the ground around 20 years. Installer had used some kind of waterproof wrap possibly installed with heat on buried portion and after breaking off the concrete all but 2 posts seemed solid enough to use again. Fence only 4ft high though.

We have only used concrete, since 1972. The posts suvive as long as they're going to survive. The treatment is out of our control.

Have used rock for setting posts for years with great success! On our corners we'd "bell shape" the bottom of the hole, place a huge rock against the back of the post at the bottom and fill with rock. Incredibly firm and lasting system.

Gravel im posts is common in Australia
Shovel shovel jiggle post shovel shovel jiggle post shovel shovel jiggle post

Then comes the wam bam tamper man at the last foot of gravel to shake any crusher dust to the bottom

Here in Iowa all the power companies have gone to setting new poles with gravel or occasionally foam.

Another reason to not set a wood post in concrete:

Wood expands and contracts with changes in moisture. Concrete doesn’t.

nice river rock

I put in a cedar fence in Knoxville Tn and was told by the supplier to use pug gravel mix. I tamped it in very well and you could not move the post and it lasted for years.

How would you set posts along a retaining wall? Better yet, how should a retaining wall be built knowing a fence is going in on the high side? Should the fence go into the blocks? Inside the gravel? Beyond the gravel? I’ve seen sleeves that go in the gravel area, but that suggests concrete, which obviously you don’t recommend! Thanks!!! Love the videos

My dad was a civil engineer. He insisted on full round cedar posts (as you suggest elsewhere.) For this part, he tamped with larger rocks (say melon sized) and native soil. Tamping in the rocks made it easy to get plumb--and if tamped in near the surface, made it super stable.

Longer posts do not transfer the movement to the bottom of the hole. The primary resistance to movement (moment or torque) is near the surface. Moreover, using fines, (as in post II) will settle snugging up the post over time. Next summer it will be more stable.

Regardless, what kind of wind do you get in Wyoming? It must be pretty intense if it is comparable to a young, fit, stud (like yourself) leaning into it like that!!!

How about a combination of gravel and post hole dirt?... the best of both worlds? ;-) Maybe a little water too as you go? I'm so confused, lol.

Just went through this myself. Setting up a woven wire fence around my new property, tried on exactly one post to use pea gravel, tamped it the best I could although I didn't oversize the hole enough to get the tamping "stick" i had to use since the steel tamper wouldn't work. End result was loose and wobbly. Pulled the post, returned the extra pea gravel, bought quikcrete, and now the posts are super solid. Thought maybe crushed gravel would perform better but wasn't going to chance it.

I get lazy too, don’t feel bad.
I believe gravel, not base, is 80% compacted when placed.

🤦‍♂️

If you are going to use “ gravel” use pure gravel not dirt and gravel….not the same product and not the same result??