Don't confuse codependency with this

I personally know 4 very well trained psychotherapists and one in training- this being provided through the employer. All 5… ops!

Sooo true!! I didn’t know I was in a narcissistic relationship, didn’t know it was a thing until someone said it to me, I thought it was my fault!! What a eye opener to listen to your videos. I owe you my sanity❤

Excellent information. Sometimes it's so hard to know. Thank you for a wonderful definition

I LOVE the book Codepency No More and group Codependents Anonymous.
The path is through, not around.
Codependency is a PTSD- fawning response.

And after 10 years of thinking I was this.. I can finally say i wasn't codependent. i was emotionally abused by an unsuspecting narcissist for an ex-partner. dammit. and fking finally.

I have codependent and anxious attachment in relationships yet i was somehow able to detach and recognize that my narcassist ex wasnt treating me right and called her bluff within the first 2 months. Thank god for these channels and her slipping and telling me how her ex posts things about her being a narcassist that she reads when she stalks his f.b. account 🤦‍♂️

Numerous scrapes with the law

I feel like the trauma bond incurred in the narcissus abusive relationships facilitated co-dependency, as I had never been that way in any prior relationship in my life. I initially stayed because of my son ... I didn't want to be the reason he felt that sense of loss again ... and she was so public about her love and obsession with me and our love and, believing it to be real (love-bombing), I leaned in and became just as public (again, not how I had ever showed up before - I was typicallyvery private). So, once I realized what was going on, I was too ashamed. Shame/guilt as a mother and threat of public shame. That's what kept me in at the first signs ... Horrific "marriage counselors" and "therapists" only enabled it and emboldened her, making it even worse. There is definitely overlap, but codependency can also definitely become a feature of a narcissistic abusive relationship due to the trauma bond.

Exactly!

Would a parent be considered codependent on their child ? They care more about them than themselves an attach their happiness to that of the child ? Where do we draw a line ?

Dr. Romani is the best

Are codependents abusive in their efforts to "help" someone? Or is that just a manipulative person's excuse to be abusive.

I know a codepent thats helpless and a user....

My fear wasn't that he would leave, it was that he would try to kill me if I didn't give him what he wanted, or would fly into a rage and harm me and my animals. I never wanted to be around him toward the end and now I self-isolate because I just don't want to fucking be around people. People are incredibly draining and my codependency makes me feel like I have to give every ounce of myself to make sure others are emotionally regulated, or else they will harm or kill me.

Glad I watched this. I was going to join a coda group. My opinion is that once you are aware and awake to what you may have experienced your whole life, a light bulb clicks and voila " I finally get it". The CODA groups from what I can see do put alot on the victim for allowing the abuse to have continued, hmm well thats victim blaming from my point of view.And, since narcissism is in the DSM it makes me glad to finally see the truth as to what all narcissistic abused people have gone through. We were duped, lied to used and emotionally abused by these demons. "simply stop playing the game. walk away"

TROPHY CODEPENDENTS & the monsters they invite into your family
Will somebody please cover this topic? My sister is an absolute magnet for powerful narcissistic men because she is beautiful, and grew up the trophy child of our narcissistic father. I am gay, and living my truth. I am my authentic self in all my relationships. These monsters she chooses to date, and bring into our family, ALWAYS see me as a liability to their cool guy image, and are immediately jealous of the relationship I have with my sister. Every time, she falls right back in to becoming whatever pleases her narcissistic man, and suddenly the sister I knew, and was so close and connected with, morphs into something I don't even recognize. She continuously chooses toxic men, creates relationships with them, and brings the poison into the family. Somehow at 39 years old she still doesn't recognize what it looks like to be love bombed by a narcissist. She still jumps right in like its true love every time. Will she ever learn? Will I ever be done having to relive this awful experience with her and her latest narcissistic lover? Please cover this topic. I feel like I am at the point where it is time for me to stop maintaining such a close relationship with her, because I don't know how else to stop reliving this trauma. She sincerely does not seem like she is ever going to heal from her emotional codependency, and choose a healthy partner.

So true, you don't know the situation you are in. That is why we need to work on ourselves first.
I understood myself and others better when I learned about codependency, emotions and, boundaries on a whole new level from Andrew Kenneth Fretwell's book, Emotional Alchemy: The Love & Freedom Hidden In Painful Feelings

Here is a quote that stayed with me:
"Do you ever find yourself saying "yes" to things you don't really want to do, or feeling guilty about saying "no" to others? This can be a sign of an Earth imbalance within you.
The Earth Phase also has a lot to do with our sense of boundaries - our ability to confidently say "no" and "yes" in a balanced way. When we can calmly decline things that don't serve us, or embrace things that do, we're embodying the qualities of a strong Earth. When boundaries are not clear it is easy to experience disappointment and manipulation."

You’re a truly inspiring person to me. Your unshakable knowledge on this subject is probably saving lives - 🙋🏾‍♀️ including mine metaphorically ❤ or maybe for some literally. It just feels so relieving to see and hear somebody that gets it. Thank you 🙏🏾 ❤

This is why I had to stay. This plus my fear of what would happen to the kids during visitation with my ex. Ultimately I left when I was afraid for my life.

The real smell test is what the person does once they get the information about what the relationship is!! You nailed it for me. Thankyou so much. This is so so validating!! I need to hear this. Thankyou ,thankyou thankyou!!

My husband is a covert narcissist and our couples therapist (I know therapy with narcissists are a bad idea) said he was codependent. I started looking things up about it to see if it was true. I’m not sure if she was right or not.

Thank you so much for clarifying this issue dear Dr. Ramani! I needed this so much!

I lucked out, I was able to get the custody order to require a supervisor for each visit. I was/still am terrified of what would happen if he were alone with his son again, and that really sucks to carry.

Thank you! I think this applies to many types of survivors as well. I’ve had therapists try this and it always triggered me cause it’s dangerously close to victim blaming or just victim blaming in the hands of an unskilled therapist. Also, it reminded me a lot of a witch trial where you’re accused but daring to disagree and saying this doesn’t really seem to apply is taken as proof of denial and therefore you are. There’s no winning or room to suggest this may not apply to every situation.

mam what are sulation co depence

I'm confused by this video but will watch it again to better understand.

This is quality spitzenclass useful education, thx Dr. Ramani

For those of us recovering from trauma, ptsd, cptsd, depression and anxiety and more than likely physiological issues because of being in fight or flight so long, I'm here to validate, backup and shed some more light based on discussions. Not everyone who falls for a dark prince who presented himself as the White Knight or Mr. Charming comes from a toxic background. Trauma can happen in anyone's childhood. Depending on the type of trauma and how long that person was subject to such trauma or abuses, can become a narcissist or they will become vulnerable to a narcissist or other toxic person. The other flip side of the coin, is that there are those who come from extremely healthy backgrounds and because of their very empathic personality style, and even spiritual back ground, that empathy, unlike the narcissist, can experience trauma within the relationship itself for the very 1st time. This is because there's all different types of narcissists, many with overlapping styles and all different levels to their trickery. We are talking con 'artists. They all have a big playbook that they source from, but they all do not come with the same bag of tricks, or toxic traits of what last I read was nearly 30 plus to choose from. It's highly important to remember this because a dysfunctional narssacistic. person or toxic individual can lead to someone elses malfunctioning state of being. This means you do not have to have any co dependency as a trait or behavior within yourself going in, but you will most definitely on some level begin exibiting codependency as a temporary cycling within that relationship until you accept what and who this person is and begin detoxing yourself from their poison. When you radically accept that hope is nothing more than dope to your brain, you'll begin cutting the dripline feeding you the gas. If you can't get totally out today, try going minimal contact if you can. Begin forging a plan for yourself, a plan for your ultimate escape out. It's extremely hard and sometimes almost impossible to become all you can be in these very suppressive, controlling dictorial, verbally, mentally, emotionally, phycholigical, and or financially abuse situations. Much love ❤️.

All I know is my gf placed the feelings of her narcissistic friend above mine. Defended, justified, rationalized all the bad things he did. Had to end it. Don't need a label for what she was doing.

You nailed it!

My friend has the knowledge, and she knows the people abusing her are not normal but she refuses to leave because she's dependent on them when she shouldn't be at this point in her life. She talks herself out of leaving. I'm praying she can get out. Please pray for her

Really fine lines here...I am 21 years in with my husband who is on the spectrum. His actions, on the surface seem narcissistic for sure, it took me a looong time to come to terms with all of this, I spent 15 years, covering for him, making excuses for him, all while thinking I married a complete jack ass, I always let him back in...the fact that I indeed was displaying codependent behaviors was not clear to me until I got a great therapist that actually listened to me. I lost myself in taking care of him, which does neither one of us any good. Recently I learned the narcissism is also on the spectrum, but different in varying degrees from High Functioning Autism (Asperger's). My life is not always easy and there are concessions that I make from time to time, but I now take care of me first. Period. This channel is amazing and I have learned SO much. This channel is one of the first places that made stop and think...and go get help. Thank you so much Dr. Ramani!

Thank you for talking about financial and practical difficulties. This is the first time I have heard it acknowledged with such kindness.

Here is the thing.
If this were physical illness, taking care of a sick spouse is never called codependency and if it is prolonged, yes it is felt like being abused when the sick individual requires most of our times and probably money as well.

At the beginning the covert narcissist abuse seems like illness: depression, stress out, a person that suddenly got triggered by his childhood trauma. Thus naturally we want to care and help him gets better.

Except, it is all manipulation. Things never get better. The “patient” refuse treatment and help.
You thought, ok maybe we are dealing with a stubborn person, a person that is afraid. So you gave assurance, encouragement. And they took all the attention they received without wanting to reciprocate.

Suddenly before you realize it, years gone by, kids happen, etc.

Then one day, someone gave you a book or gave you an article, and you realize you have been manipulated.

Thus I am challenging the term codependency. How many percent of those that has to deal with a narcissist in their life are actually codependent? Because I dont act this way to anyone else. Just to him.
I dont lost myself, i still have my values intact. It is him that seems “lost”. That seems to “dont know what to do” because of stress out life.

I never keep my silent to appease, i have no trouble confronting. But here is another tactic that is used by mine, his job. His job often called him to be out of town and after learning about narcissist tactics, i realized he used that to get away and avoid “my anger” and “waiting for me to cool down” but there is never any follow through from him. But he became VERY SWEET AND GIVING IN TO MY REQUESTS (love bombing) when he gets back home. I thought ok, this is his way of saying sorry, except there are never any attempt to have conversation of things that needs to be talked about. The behaviors also repeated.
There were years gap between two incident and as years gone by the cycle gettinng tighter and tighter. Years become months in between and at the end it is DAYS before finally there were no “sweetness” at all in between just meaness and anger and cruelty.

Ok, i got triggered into over explaining.

Covert Narcissist also high on codependency traits.

Brilliant video! Love how you explained the different situations of what is NOT codependency! I agree wholeheartedly! Thank you, Dr. Ramani! 🙏💝

i knew i was a codependent person because my narc parent and my love one. I went for a therapy since 2018 but still struggling in saying to my own-self that i have escaped the cycle. Up until today, this video really enlighten me about who i want to be and what have i achieved. I have tick all the non-codependency characteristic listed by Dr Ramani in this video and I am seeing myself smiling right now for my effort in searching and becoming who I am today. I still haven't leave my toxic relationship due to cultural issue. But I am glad I could give no excuse anymore for their bad behavior/action. And I have finally accepted that's who they were, who they are which I do not expect changes unless they; themselves permitted the changes

That is my problem right now. It is not that I am still codependent, I am just practically stuck. I have nowhere else to go right now to leave my old home.

You have over a million subscribers for good reason. You are the best! Thank you for your help.

Dr Ramani…. You are so cool. You get it. Words can never express the gratitude I feel for your life saving wisdom - the wisdom that you CHOOSE to share with us to help us, and Society, fooled by deadly and ruinous narcissism. You are truly making a difference- you certainly are in my life.. God bless you for your selflessness

Being in a relationship with a narcissist will force you into a state of codependency.
They get you high on love bombing and then force you into withdrawals. Narcissists drug of choice is "love" and those who are carrying around a toxic load of shame are the most vulnerable.

I hate HATE that these differences are overlooked. Blame makes everything worse when you are already struggling to change your situation.

Co-dependency, along with other diagnoses victims of narcissistic abuse are given, always seem so ... victim blaming to me. It's a way for a professional to sweep it off as our own fault/confirming the abuser's accusations that we are the broken and unwell ones.

I was diagnosed as having generalized anxiety disorder and codependency. But I hate my abuser. I'm just financially reliant on him for the time being and counting down the days until I can escape. And I have no generalized anxiety. It turns out, I have a very normal anxious reaction to being around my abuser! My healthy reaction to being anxious about being abused was pathologized and made me think I really was the problem just like my dad kept telling me. It's like the whole world got together to gaslight me and tell me I had no reason to be anxious about being abused as a child/teenager and now the world turns around to suddenly ask 'why are you so broken and financially dependent on an abuser? What made you think abuse was normal?'

Thank you so much for this 💜🤗🦋🙏

I definitely see myself in the descriptions of co-dependency. Unconsciously valuing myself by how helpful I could be to others was instilled in me during my upbringing.

It explains why the partners I have been with over the years have been the ones they were. Several of them required that extra support, that personal cheerleader, I felt compelled to be.

The first two relationships, I could set boundaries so they ended before it got truly toxic. The third was with a person who was dxed with borderline after we were over. The deep despair he genuinely felt whenever he felt uncertain of my love compelled me to give up my boundaries.

Eventually, I ended it, only to find an alcoholic a few years later.

After that, a bloke bloke who I suspect is also borderline, albeit un-dxed.

And after that, a person dxed with borderline, whom I suspect is actually a narcissist.

There's a pattern here and the pattern is mine. My current partner - the one I hope will be the last partner - wants me, but he doesn't need me. That feels uncertain and unstable - scary even. Every day I work to reorient myself to this healthier relationship, but it is 30+ years of upbringing and reinforcement I am trying to dismantle, so I am a work in progress. On the good days, I can feel that it's worth it.

What if it’s a different fear??? You want them to be better but we want OUT more… just interdependence is what we seek but not possible when we don’t have help to heal but awareness of dynamics/ no way out mentalities? Yes! The suffering and gaslighting is just as bad when we leave toxic abusive relationships especially with children. 🙏🙏🙏💜🥹