Ep. 50. Bipoles and Dipoles for Dolby ATMOS. Good or Bad for Home Theater? Home Theater Gurus.

What speaker brands/models are available to pull off the in-ceiling cross firing? I've never seen one with a drastic off angle degree. Most I've seen are 15-20°.

Another great video!!!!!! Thanks for everything!!!

I use dipol for front hight for atmos it sounds good

It’s hard to imagine that anyone would think of anything other than monopoles for ceiling speakers.

Re narrow rooms, bipole surrounds all the way, but mounted somewhat higher on the walls. I’m using Axiom QS10’s, which are quadrupoles, in an 11 foot wide media room, and the effect is sensational (with M3 in-ceiling Atmos speakers for a 7-2-4 system.)

Great information as always, thanks Steven!

Thanks Steve - I have made so many "tweaks" to my system already based on your videos that have positively improved the sound. - Cheers!

Good topic. I agonized over this and ultimately decided on Arendal's "tri-axial" 1961 surround between my two rows. Will be testing in the next couple weeks as I finish the room build and we'll see how it sounds.

I'm using a RP-502S II for my 2 surround sides. I liked them more then when I used my RP-600M IIs. The 600s aimed right in my ear BUT the detail was more. 502IIs toss sound & I can't tell where it's coming from

I got bipoles for my side surround speakers in a small room (18*10*8ft). Not ideal but work well. Monopoles for my height speakers. Sometimes we gotta compromise given budget and room setup. I agree though, bipoles for height channels isn't a good idea.

I truly enjoy your videos. It’s very clear that you simply want to help people get the most out of their home theatre, (rather than a sales pitch or ego trip like some content out there). Such genuine and logical information.
Keep up the superb content, Steven. 👏👏👏😁

Thanks for the video. I suppose it should be noted that Dolby endorses BIPOLE explicitly in their October 2016 Dolby Atmos For Home Theater document on page 5, saying "An ideal listener-level setup will include monopole or bipole speaker designs. Dolby does not recommend the use of dipole speakers for use at the listener level; the highly diffuse sound patterns of dipole speakers interfere with the accurate positioning of sounds in the three-dimensional soundstage that is Dolby Atmos."

Triad recommended bipoles with low ceilings. I can't recall the paper but it was an official one. Bit of a head scratcher to me, because while Atmos speakers are supposed to be wide dispersion, a bipole is a bit unique. Of course Triad doesn't say anything anymore, now it's just part of a big company.

Would love a video on how you setup an array for surround speakers covering two rows.

I cannot afford a processor with a channel count above 16 channels so I decided to install a monopole speaker at the side of each row but they are connected to the same channel on the receiver.

I am sure this is a big no no as it will causing smearing but other than adding a miniDSP to of the pairs to add delay I will have to compromise with a single speaker trying to cover two rows which we know isn't going to happen.

I'm slowing building my theater room...I have 6 Def tach SR9080, 2 on each side for both rows and 2 for the rears...I also went with 6 sonance 6" speakers for the atmos. I your opinion is this a good set up so far or no...I also order the 9080 for towers and center, and adding two in wall subs, but not sure if I want to wait on the svs or go a different route. What's your thoughts?

I have 4 bi-pole speakers in a 10 x 10 bedroom. They work great, create a huge soundstage.

Hate it when they smear the rear😝

What about the scenario where the couch is against the wall and the bipoles are mounted on the wall behind the sofa, a feet above ear height? How would they be for 5.1 in a living room?

Hi when you was talking about the ceiling speakers (dipole ) with the sound being fired in different directions ,then all sudden you say this is how you need them ,with both firing towards you ,so is this with a mono pole type , or what 🤷‍♂️ also what about tripole speaker , say the Miller & kreisel type

This video could have been shortened to 60 seconds by simply stating:
Due to the Advent of object-based Atmos imaging bipole and dipole speakers should no longer be used.
It really is just that simple.

Hi. I want to give my bipoles the best position in a 5.2.4 Setup. I have tested the bipoles at about 90° and 110° at he sidewalls. And it's ok...
My couch is about 1,20m from the backwall. I think a better choice is to put the bipoles at the backwall maybe 120°-130°. So the "inside" sweeter can aim to the MLP and the "outside" sweeter can reflect to the sidewalls for the sideseats...
What do you think about this?

Great explanation. My surround speakers are considered to be Triaxial. Theres a monopole speaker (tweeter/woofer) facing the LP and then there is a 3” full range driver at a 45 degree on both sides. Those 3” drivers can be disabled but I’ve been lazy about it, bc they are inside my columns. My rear speakers are regular monopole speakers so everything seems to points to changing my surrounds to monopole only.

If I don’t have room for 2 rear surround speakers, does it work to use one of these speakers to get a similar sound? I have an open concept with a large opening where the rear right speaker would go.

Dipoles, like Paradigm have, work great when the seating is against the back wall. Like you said, they become directional, and many basement setups have a long couch or seating along one wall. In that type of seating, I'd highly recommend bipolar speakers.

I came across boston acoustic 575x dipole speaker surround by accident at the goodwill for $15.00.
Sound awesome a lot more highs.

I don't know,my first Dolby Atmos system,I got it right, with the challenges of the room being small and it's my bedroom,so to make such mistakes

I'm still trying to decide what to build for Atmos but I'm thinking keep it simple and just a very basic monopole.

For the rears, I have the problem of the rear row, it's only a few inches off the back wall. One thought was to build an open baffle dipole mounted over the rear row placing that row in the dipole null. The rear row would hear mostly the rear wave bouncing off the back wall but the middle and front row would hear the front wave and to them it would be the same as if it were a monopole. Another thought was to build an inverted ground plane CBT against the back wall using the ceiling as the ground plane. The full output drivers are farther away and off axis to the rear row and the attenuated end drivers are closer to their heads. They really shouldn't hear them any louder than the middle or front row. There is just no easy way to deal with a rear row so close to the back wall. Of course the back row is an overflow row, 99% of the time only the middle row will be used.

Another great video, thanks bud. Now I shall take this info to AVS and pick a fight.

Nah, they're a very helpful bunch. I only pick fights with Cables Guys. Because they deserve it.

I'm really looking at something from Arendal and Chane, they have VESA mount capability so I can buy a small TV mount and have full swivel capability for Atmos speakers! Haha seems pretty cool and I think it'll work out well.

Great video that raised a lot of good points. Just one question. With the monopoles aiming at the opposite end seat, would you also tilt the front ATMOS speakers back, and the back ones forward?

Could you not just build a bubble of speakers around you. Like in a Pod. Something you get into and shut the door. Like an Atmos Pod. I would like to see you do this, and use small cheap speakers.

Just found your channel. Love your video. Super informative

Any issues with framing an angle in my circling just to hold my atmos speakers? This way they won’t fire straight down?

What about Tri poles like M&K SS300?

Best hands-on room creation channel going, well done man.

Which would you recommend for “on-ceiling” speakers, sloped/angled face(svs prime elevation, klipsch rp-500sa) or book shelves?

Also for your preferred choice, what to specifically look for I.e. imaging, soundstage, horizontal dispersion, range, etc.

Man the practicality of the information you're giving is really refreshing. It feels like the information is grounded in measurable elements but mainly easily remembered because it's explained in a great order and repeat core information multiple times. Props to all your videos super grateful of your content!

Please I need your advice
I currently have 5, 1, 2 and a surround speaker is Bipole Speakers
I want to upgrade soon to 7.1.2. Should I buy Bookshelf?

Thanks for answering my question I feel honored lol! I learn so much from your videos and you have helped me improve my small home theater 10 fold. Thank you so much

Do you design rooms for people as I want a 5.2.4 atmos set up

What about using tripole speakers as surrounds in a 5.2.4 atmos setup?

The closest surround is about 60cm away from the person and the furtherest is probably 1.5m.

Im not sure if i should use my tripole because theyre so close or if I should use standard bookshelf speakers.

Where would you suggest that I mount a pair of Definitive Technology BPX bipolar speakers in a Dolby Atmos/DTS X Pro 15-channel (9.2.6) surround sound setup? Front wide wall, side surrounds wall, or back surrounds wall speakers?

At this moment I still have dipole for side surrounds. Not ideally for Atmos, but........ lots of content is still 5.1. or 7.1 So for now I'm very pleased listening to it. Indeed placement is not that precise, but the immersive experience is pretty satisfying. It's all about the placement and the possibilities to place them in YOUR room. I have only a 7.1.2 so just 2 height speakers in front, so no movement or placing above my head, but a wall of sound. It's always a compromise living rooms. Except if you own a designated HT room

Thanks man. It is a clear and understandable piece of advice. I saved a lot of money thanks to you. Unfortunately, I have a challenging cinema/audio room placed in an attic. I did a lot of acoustic treatment in this room and stereo music sounds great but movies, placing atmos, surround speaker, it kills me it is almost impossible. I wish I had your knowledge. Thanks again.

Well that sucks. I'm running 4 Paradigm ADP-390's dipoles for my surrounds...

What if you can't place speakers to the sides but only behind and above the seated position?

I use bipole for the surround and the rear surround as I have the back of the room open and closed off by a divider, it sounds AWESOME!! It sounds great since my fronts are so powerful and then simple directional for atmos. Thanks for the science behind it and the video.

What about bipoles overhead in a .2 configuration, oriented longitudinally (ie. rotated 90° from how you had them in this video)? Dolby would have a .2 pair just above and ahead of the MLP. So that the most likely reflecting surface is the floor ahead of the listeners, and possibly low on the back wall.

My thinking here is, I can power only 7 channels, so how do I smear the overhead longitudinally while preserving lateral L/R definition?

I’m thinking Atmos is probably awesome IF you have perfect room, with the specific equipment, specifically placed, managed by specific audio processing, and playing a movie recorded in Atmos. If any of those are off then you just have a high school band all playing at the same time.

I have an 11x15 room with a projector and a 65” tv and a 5.1 system that works well, and adding ceiling speakers is almost impossible, but not impossible. It would take a lot of effort and money to add 4 speakers up there, and there really would only be room for two. However, I am having a hard time seeing that it would be worth it. Most of my existing library is DTS at best, the new 4k movies I buy are duplicates of movies I already own in DVD and Blu-ray, and new stuff is streamed using questionable codecs and compression. This reminds me of all the effort I went through for 3D; it was gee-whiz but it wasn’t at all worth it.

If I were trying to recreate a movie theater, I think I’d first start with finding a good buttered popcorn.

what about using bipolar as the side surrounds where the speakers are running parallel to the wall and bipolar for the rear where the speakers are running parallel. I am running Klipsch RS 42s for the side and rear. Would a mono pole be better?

Shall we use bipolar speakers as rear surrounds in a 7.1.2 layput