Advanced Guitar Signal Paths Explained

I have learned a lot. Particularly that until i have a lot more money to invest, I'm gonna have to keep it simple!

I have learned a lot. Particularly that until i have a lot more money to invest, I'm gonna have to keep it simple!

I have learned a lot. Particularly that until i have a lot more money to invest, I'm gonna have to keep it simple!

Want to run 2 different flavor 2-Channel amps w/ different Boosts in front and e.g. stereo delay in effect loop. Can/do I have to use a “7 cable method”?

I’ve learned a lot. So, now the next step 😊 where you’d put a loopstation pedal in the WDW chain? I’m guessing that a Looper at the end it’ll never replay the distorted sounds… on the other side a Looper before the effect loop return from the amp will loose the right wet sound…
Any hints?

This video cleared up so much confusion for me. Great overview 🤘

I am still just a big dummy. I can understand an effects Loop being necessary to an amp that brings some dirt to the equation. But I don't think you really need the effects Loop if your amp is not even giving any kind of gain or EQ color to what you're accomplishing. As I stumbled about to try to recreate a wet dry wet sound I found something pretty cool. I ran my gain stages to the front of the amp. The send of my effects Loop goes to my C9 pedal which then splits the signal one is dry and totally unaffected the other is also the same until you click the organ on. That second line runs through all of my time based effects. Both of those lines run into an A B Y Switcher but they're running into the outputs rather than the input and then I only have one combined line of the two running somewhat parallel and yet mingled back to the return. It's a kind of a neat wet and dry set up. ( I did not have a line outbox so I did the best I could with what I have) I am still getting the time effect on my phone even when I don't have the organ button turned on it's pretty cool

Awesome awesome video Mason. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Instead of the Cab Sim, if I’m using two small combo amps, would the delay feed the return of each combo? Or would it be going into the front of the combo amps?

I know it's more a one off kinda thing, however what about when running several amps on something like a Radial JD7 Injector? Apparently I've been told more people use them then I'm aware of lol. It just seems a whole different ballpark when running multiple amps with 1 pedalboard through a system like this?

Would the signal path in an amp with built in effects look like this? Preamp - fxloop - amp reverb - power amp?

Thanks for the great explanation! If I use a tuner with a built-in high quality buffer such as the TC Electronic Polytune 3 Mini with the built-in Bonafide buffer and then into a passive volume pedal, does a separate input buffer before such a tuner-pedal become obsolete or even damaging?

Thanks for the videos @VertexEffects, very helpful! I'd really appreciate your feedback on my rig plans...

I mostly record in my home studio. I use a DI box so I can run my amp live while still being able to record a DI signal into my DAW. I then run line level from my direct out on my amp into my DAW and record both channels at the same time.

I'm running a high gain distortion pedal and a tube screamer into my clean channel on my Revv G20. (btw I tried switching positions between the two mid to high gain pedals and you are absolutely right about the lower gain pedal going after the high gain pedal). Anyway... I want flexibility; the option to switch between the high gain pedal and my amps built-in distortion. Therefore, I'm applying the 4-cable method and using my FX Loop as you recommended.

I want to introduce a gate and looper into my signal chain. The looper for live shows where I might have a third guitar part. Unfortunately you didn't cover these pedals in your video, so I scoured the comments here for answers.

Between some of your replies and my own logic, this is what I was able to come up with...

instrument output>DI box input>DI box instrument level output>tuner input>tuner output>buffer input>buffer send>dynamics input>dynamics output>gate input>gate send>distortion input>distortion output>buffer return>buffer output>amp input>amp send>buffer input>buffer send>gate return>gate output>modulation input>modulation output>time-based input>time-based output>buffer return>buffer output>looper input>looper output>amp return

I think I got it, or I believe I'm pretty close. I'm questionable about the tuner (Peterson strobe) placement, modulation effects being in the FX Loop, the routing of the buffers and placement of the looper. I'm not sure if the DI box is acting as a buffer already. Also, I would assume a gate falls under the dynamic category since it behaves a lot like a compressor but it still makes sense (to me) to keep my other dynamic pedals before and out of the gates FX Loop.

Appreciate your time and love the videos,
Ryan

So where do I put my Boss TU-3 tuner?

how would I use a loop switcher in my rig? Does the order matter in this situation

I just play the guitar... This is way harder to understand than that.

@VertexEffectsInc If you would be kind enough to take the time, I need an assessment of my setup, and any opinions or suggestions on what I'm doing wrong/right or could do differently.
I'm using what I'd consider a hybrid setup where I'm running a few analog fx with a Pod Go.
Current signal chain is:
Guitar> JHS Killswitch> Livewire passive a/b/y box([a] channel for d.i. and [b] continues to rest of pedalboard)> MXR Talkbox (which has full bypass mode when engaged)> Original Morley Bad Horsie II> Ibanez Mini Tube Screamer> MXR Noise Gate> Guitar in of Pod Go and using 4cm from Pod Go into my Orange Micro Dark head.
In my Pod Go signal path, I have:
Volume pedal> modulations (Chorus, Flanger, Phaser, Trems)> FX Loop> Amp Simulation> Reverb> Delay> EQ? (Sometimes?*). I'm using a Diezel Amp Simulation in the Pod Go and have my Micro Dark head set up for gorgeous clean tones with the gain at just around 8 o'clock, tone at 3 o'clock and volume at 3 o'clock.
Assuming you're familiar with the Pod Go and its features, how would you go about signal routing with this kind of setup? Amp Simulation before or after FX loop in the PG chain, analog pedals in the PG fx loop, etc?
Your time and response are greatly appreciated!!

What are Input and Output Buffers?
Any recommendations on some good models i can buy?

Hey Mason, where would a Digitech Drop pedal go in a rig using 4 cable method?

I need to stop watching your stuff. Last video I saw of yours, I ended up buying a damn digitech reverb. You and your pedals are dangerous 😂

Where is noise gate in this signal chain? For example isp decimator 2 G string

Great video! Just wondering if you’d have some advice on where and how to set up vocal pedals, like the TC Helicon harmony singer 2 etc. where in the chain would that be? Should vocal pedals be placed in a chain or not at all?

Thank you for this.
I’m new to the guitar playing scene. Haven’t even gotten my guitar yet🤣😂😆
I don’t want a speaker cab yet. I want to preamp the signal with the option of using effects pedals or not and out put straight to my interface. Is that an option with this. And what would you or anyone in the comments recommend.

This might be a really stupid question, but the (WET)FOH can also be CABS rights? What about FRFR speakers? And why would you say the effect loop's usefulness is nullified when its the pedals generating the distortion, isn't that what most people use which is pedals generating distortions?

Great overview. But even the “simple” example is not very simple.

Not a rig doctor but you’re rig master

Would a Big Muff go first in the chain before the tuner?

So vintage style fuzz pedals go before a Boss TU-3?

I am new to all this so ,Out from a mono pedal I plug into the input R of the stereo pedal ,I hear only one of the two amps .if I remove the cable from the stereo pedal and plug it into the other input ( Mono) I hear only the other amp. Trying to get volume from both. running two cables from the stereo pedal L /R , do I get some kind of split cable to go from Mono pedal into both stereo pedals inputs??

Champion video

With the Four Cable Method is a buffer recommended in between the cable coming from the FX loop send and the first pedal in the FX loop? Thanks!

What’s the simplest way to take one amp with an fx loop (4 cable method) and run the delay/verb in stereo? Cab Zeus? Is the separate mixer necessary?

Great, detailed video Mason! New to the wet/dry/wet talk (been Kemper for years). Would the Two Notes CAB M+ work in place of the Suhr Line out? ie, Mesa Mark IV to 2notes (line out to wet effects, XLR used for mono signal). Thanks for the help Mason, great stuff!!!

Maan, shout out to you for the knowledge and interpretation and shout out to the crew. You are all doing phenomenal job! Super helpful, entertaining and informative.

Even some complicated things are presented in fun, perfectly paced, easy going way. Love that you care and repeat to make sure we don't get lost. Love suggestions no matter what they are about! Cannot think of more professional group of people. Even if there is, im glad im in that time that i can learn this way. Just enjoying!!!

I just noticed a problem with the wet/dry/wet chain. If you want to use a compressor and eq through the line out, it's only affecting the wet left and right sides and your dry center will probably sound off in comparison. This is where I think a stereo rig has an advantage since you have the dry sound in both cabinets being affected by the compressor and eq and would probably sound more harmonious.

Doesn't the TU-2 have a buffer in it?

Wait so you would recommend a dedicated buffer as opposed to a tuning pedal that is bufferred?

Just a stupid question...Eddie Van halen was using the PCM70,2 SDE3000,Eventide H3000 without any mixer...how could he place them in parallel...? were they in series...?

I literally have three pedals after my input buffer. Will an output buffer be that much of a difference 🤔

For classic WDW, I’m not sure how to route the stereo outs of my Boss DC-2W or Tricerachorus into the Musicom Parallelizer. The Parallelizer only has a mono input. Do I just go straight into return 1 (L&R)? That leaves me with two loops, one for a micropitch and one for reverb, correct? Then take the two Parallelizer stereo outs into the return 1 of a second Parallelizer for two more loops (for two mono delays or a single stereo delay)?

Also, why not have the chorus in a parallel loop like the other pitch/time effects?

Hello sir mason...i just want to ask what if i have a walrus acs1,,where should i place it on my signal chain??please help me sir

I have a question, 5CM(Stereo 4cm) is like a wet/dry/wet with two amps, guitar and pedals go to amp input and the send of that amp goes mono to delay and reverb in stereo and those split in stereo to the return of amp 1 and the return of amp 2, so is using the original dry guitar sound in amp 1 but delays and reverb in stereo panned to amp 1 and 2(100% wet sound), my question is, is the sound similar with a 5CM rig with two amps to a Wet/Dry/Wet rig with three amps? Or is 5cm a reduced version of wet dry wet?

I 'm using the 4 cable method. My buffer pedal is the Empress, would like to add a noise gate.
The amp is a 5150 iii 50 watt head need to use the gate to clean up amp and pedal noise .Going
to use TC Sentry gate how would I place it in the chain? Thanks for any advice.

Thanks again for this video. I have a question for your opinion on a set up for a newbie to set up a board knowing that I am trying to replicate Def Leppard tones and Van Halen, Boston if there are devices to drop in your sound path for a 4 plug set up? I have no idea one brand from another and if you have a preference that you could suggest for what you would build to replicate that sound I would greatly appreciate it.

New to Guitar and totally lost with pedals and have not started set up yet, but I totally appreciate your videos and any and all suggestion you have. You are awesome at explaining this and I am so glad I found this on u tube.


Have a great day

So in a 4 cable method univibe after od/dist, but in a wet dry wet it goes before od/dist? Why the difference?

Hey there, absolutely love your videos!
I have a question , what would be the proper way to run pedals into a Universal Audio Apollo Interface,utilizing the UA unison amps? The Apollo has the impedance matching to their amp simulations, so watching your videos on buffering etc. it got me wondering what the proper way to do this is, to get the most realistic result?
Thanks!

If I were to use an Orange Super Crush 100, do I need a buffer before the "Return" in the FX Loop? They advertise it as a "Fully-Buffered FX Loop," but I do feel a bit skeptical.

Can you help me out of the path of a fortin zuul with a splitter/buffer? Where would the tuner/wah go and where would I put my distortion/chorus/flanger/delay ?