Staxioms vs Jimbob: Is Naturalism/Materialism Coherent?

JimBob is FOS. Where can JimBlather show knowledge outside a brain (naturalism)?

Jimbob sucks at frisbee golf

Stax is a good sport, thoroughly enjoyed the debate.

My mind is going crazy listening and I'm on 20 minutes in, how can this guy not see him agreeing to this proposed worldview negates the law of identity, and in turn choice. No choice, no knowledge, because all just "is", I mean jimbob layed it out pretty clearly. Have to give dude credit for staying calm though, an hopefully he provides some stronger counterpoints as the debate progresses.

Jimbob's stage of more frequent Peterson impersonations was great. My favorites were the "it's like" and the outbursts of "FAAAK"

Oof, junior should have researched JimBob

I'd rather live under a Christian dominated value structure in my society, but I have to say that to claim that the value system isn't a subjective preference by an individual and society is absurd....
One chose these values probably using reason.... So, they are subject to one's reason as being preferable to other systems that one has judged wanting in comparison....
And to hyperfocus a religion on Logic also seems absurd. Especially when it has men walking on water, raising of the dead, demons being cast into pigs, and the most illogical thing of all... the God/Man!!
Not being critical of those things or saying that they aren't true facts, I don't know ( I can't reasonaby say that a claim of the type, " Caesar crossed the Rubicon " is more true... ) but they aren't logic based things. The base claim of the religion being the most illogical of all... the God/Man... which is p and not p at the same time... and I would say this illogic is more in tune with how humans go about things and make things work... and how the world is... and might be the point of the whole project?
And I'd say the proof is... the fact that it certainly seems preferable to base a societies values on a religion that, at its base, in its founding concept... is illogical....

"I conclude then that logic is a real insight into the way in which real things have to exist. In other words, the laws of thought are also the laws of things: of things in the remotest space and the remotest time. This admission seems to me completely unavoidable and it has very momentous consequences. In the first place it rules out any materialistic account of thinking. We are compelled to admit between the thoughts of a terrestrial astronomer and the behaviour of matter several light-years away that particular relation which we call truth. In the first place it rules out any materialistic account of thinking. We are compelled to admit between the thoughts of a terrestrial astronomer and the behaviour of matter several light years away that particular relation which we call truth. But this relation has no meaning at all if we try to make it exist between the matter of the star and the astronomer’s brain, considered as a lump of matter. The brain may be in all sorts of relations to the star no doubt: it is in a spatial relation, and a time relation, and a quantitative relation. But to talk of one bit of matter as being true about another bit of matter seems to me to be nonsense." C.S. Lewis - De Futilitate

He lost the debate in the opening statement when he proclaimed Joe Biden is a great president

Glad you are alive and well.

You need a Shameless shill timer. At X minutes you will hear a chime. Please finish your thought & then you shamelessly plug something without further notice .

Dude's mentally ill. Nice guy, but completely diseased brain.

Staxiom's worldview is incoherent, and it is being revealed to him in real time.

I’ve got a knock down argument for Andrew in the form of modus ponens:

If God created everything good, then wasp are good.

God created everything good.

Therefore, wasp are good.


Rekt Andrew. Rekt.

Stax will keep mualing this one over.

OG Snoop missed an opportunity to bust Staxiom because he asserted that he's a "skeptic". Staxiom is not even remotely skeptical. He copped to it in his opening by describing himself as a "raging liberal" and a supporter of Bo Jiden. That's not skepticism. That's belief. Staxiom is essentially the Religious Left. I guarantee he's not skeptical of the positions promoted by progressives. The "skeptic" position is really just an unbelief in Christianity accompanied by a wide range of other beliefs. This is why it's so valuable to assess the coherence of his materialist worldview.

There we go boys. A house with rights again.

Machine lies got dat flying carpet by the seams of his pants

Great job, Jim Bob. Showcased the insanity of materialism very well.

Jimbob wrecks again. Shoutout to staxioms.

Stacking Axioms

Andew, worst time to stop the debate 🤣

>has a worldview which, if carried out to its logical conclusion leads to existential despair
>doesn't like existential despair
>avoids this by doing his best to avoid carrying out the worldview to its logical conclusion
Wouldn't it be more pragmatic to just adopt a different worldview that doesn't lead to existential despair?

Staxiom's self-evident axioms are like the criminal world's 'somebody has to trust somebody.' In other words, the criminal world doesn't exist without one point of connection to the moral world.

This guy is really in a double bind with a system of belief.

Crucible main channel down?

Both debate opponents somehow lost in their opening statements. Staxiom says something about axioms and Jimbob goes off on a misunderstanding of epistemology. We give names to patterns of thought, but they don't exist outside the brain. If they do, demonstrate it.

Staxioms did not understand the consequences of his beliefs and admits he doesnt live that way and pretends its not the case.

“ I’m flying by my own pants, I got the magic carpet” -The Machine Lies 2023

So a point of critique for JimBob.

First when he’s saying I have to mathematical systems A and B, and one could hold 1=1 and the other could deny it, he’s using the classical laws at a meta-level. He is identifying system A as system A and system B as system B. He’s also presupposing system A cannot be both system A and system B at the same time and in the same sense.

Second point would be that you can use transcendental arguments to point out the transcendental nature of the laws of logic when people ask you to prove them.

Transcendental propositions will be presupposed both in their affirmation and in their denial.

Wish I could have called into this debate. Staxioms would have been fun to talk to.

Andrew what have you done to PF Jung? 😂

Raging atheist, raging liberal. Supports Biden 100%… yikes

Jimbob is a force and a masterful debater. Great stream brothers 🙌

Staxioms got smoked. I'm glad he took it well, since his opening argument was just that he was a raging liberal. I didn't see a whole lot of rage here.

Great debate! Easy dub for JB

Jimbob gets wrecked again.

Jimbob out here taking thoughts captive 🥂

Really great debate. Good job Jimbob.

Jimbob literally won the debate in his opening argument

I really enjoyed this stream debate. Staxioms you were a great opponent and one of the best good faith debaters out there. Enjoyed your responses and curiosity towards what Jimbob was saying. You were straightforward and easygoing attitude.

Wow, JB. I'm impressed. I feel like you've been good at debating but this may be your best one. Or I'm understanding the way you argue more.

Frank objectively better than Sly. NY and PA are both shit holes. Eye of the tiger mfers.