Why the Zelda Timeline is IMPOSSIBLE

There are a few mistakes in this video:

0. The Child-Adult Timeline Split is evidently not caused by the Master Sword and the Ocarina of Time separating from each other, as the two are actually unrelated to one another, canonically. The Timeline Split is caused by the fact that when the Hero of Time returned the Master Sword to its pedestal, the entrance to the Sacred Realm was sealed off, and Ganondorf was no longer able to access the Triforce. Instead, the family caught notice of his plans to commit treason, and imprisoned him.

1. You mentioned the Child-Adult Timeline Split makes perfect sense, but it actually does not. The problem is, the Master Sword cannot possibly exist in the Adult Timeline, since the Hero of Time took it with him when traveling to the past, and no other copies of it are supposed to exist, as, in the events of Skyward Sword, only the one was forged. Also, according to the lore of Skyward Sword, Ganondorf is an incarnation of the Demon Tribe's hatred who only exists to persecute the Spirit of Hero and the Blood of the Goddess, so it should be impossible for him to have been freed from the seal, and for there not have been a Hero to combat him. As such, it should not have been possible for the events of the Great Flood to happen. Also, since the Golden Goddesses left behind the Triforce with it being incapable to distinguish gooddoers from evildoers, it makes little sense that they disregarded this and chose to take action themselves, especially as this a responsibility that, in previous games, was explicitly left in the hands of other deities, Hylia included. A similar issue with this exists in Twilight Princess as well. In any case, while an Adult Timeline definitely exists, the events in the backstory of Wind Waker are inconsistent with the Adult Timeline.

2. You also ignored how problematic it is that Four Swords Adventures is placed after Twilight Princess, when this is inconsistent with what is stated in the game. The game literally references the Hero of the Four Swords and the Princess of the same Era as being the protagonists of Four Swords Adventures, and describes the period between the events of Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures as "being peaceful," which is inconsistent with it being placed after Ocarina of Time. Also, the game clearly contains an appearance of Beast Ganon, which is inconsistent with what we know about Twilight Princess and reincarnation as a whole in the franchise, and contains a Trident, a weapon never previously seen in this Timeline, but seen previously in the Fallen Timeline. As such, it is pretty obvious, the game takes place after Four Swords, and before A Link to the Past, but has no relationship with Ocarina of Time.

3. The chronological placement of Breath of the Wild can actually be made to make sense. The simplest explanation is that an event analogous to the Great Flood happened in the Fallen Timeline and Child Timeline, at some point long after Twilight Princess and the Hyrule Fantasy; an event analogous to the Invasion of the Twilight happened in the Fallen and Adult Timelines, and an event analogous to the Imprisonment War happened in the Child and Adult Timelines. Obviously, these events could only have been analogous, not identical, since it would have been impossible for them to be identical for obvious reasons. However, the actual differences that would result would have been lost to time by the time Breath of the Wild takes place. I will admit, this is an extremely artificial and contrived way to make it work, but the idea is done on purpose: it justifies rendering the rest of the chronology irrelevant, and thus, effectively obsolete.

4. I think it is fine that the chronology can be molded by the player's imagination. This is consistent with the idea that there is a true chronology, but that it can never be known, just like how, for the real world, archaeologists and historians can study real-life chronological events that happened, but never be certain about what truly happened. It is a very creative way of storytelling, and it alleviates the problem of inconsistencies and vagueness. It also is consistent with the notion that these games are legends, and that a chronological link between them does not have to actually exist, but could exist.

5. Hyrule Historia and the Encyclopedia never actually claimed that the Fallen Timeline is a "What if?" hypothetical scenario. The books say "The Hero is defeated," not "IF the Hero is defeated." In other words, at face value, the books are saying that this defeat actually happened. How can this be possible, when we know that in Ocarina of Time, the Hero of Time was never defeated (gameplay mechanics aside)? The answer is simple: the Hero was defeated, and then was sent to the past by someone in order to repeat the events of Ocarina of Time, but this time, succeed. Now, you are correct to point out in the video that the game only contains one Timeline Split. However, this does not mean the above answer is false. Instead, we can conclude that this other Timeline split happened outside of the game: perhaps the Split had already happened by the beginning of Ocarina of Time. Ocarina of Time is what you experience after Link has been sent to the past (possibly by Princess Zelda) to repeat the events in order to defeat Ganondorf. This would explain many things. It would explain why Link had the otherwise-unexplainable prophetic vision at the beginning of the game, and it would explain why Navi knows things that are otherwise impossible for her to have known, and why she acts like such an annoying worriwart. This may even be a piece in the puzzle that explains the mystery that is her disappearance at the end of Ocarina of Time. That being said, this is, again, an extremely artificial, contrived, and unnecessary way of making it work, and more likely than not, the Fallen Timeline was just a mistake on Nintendo's part. However, I am merely pointing out, it is technically consistent with the evidence.

I do agree that many problems do exist with the official, chronology, though, and many of them are difficult to fix. Breath of the Wild's placement will forever remain a mystery, but due to how distantly into the future it occurs, I think this is fine, and so, not an actual problem. My biggest concerns are (a) addressing the relationship between A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time, which is the biggest issue in the entire chronology; (b) addressing the relationship between A Link to the Past and Four Swords Adventures, since as I mentioned, Four Swords Adventures is clearly intended to be a sequel to Four Swords, and to take place before A Link to the Past; (c) addressing the inconsistencies between the endings of Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword, and the backstory of the Wind Waker; (d) addressing the inconsistencies between A Link Between Worlds and A Link to the Past; (e) addressing the relationship between the Triforce Trilogy, the Oracles Games, Link's Awakening, and the earliest-released two games in the franchise.

Thank you!!! I love the Legend of Zelda, but there is no timeline.

I really hate the downfall timeline, I understand they need to put the games somewhere but i don't like the idea of IF instead of WHEN, like stated in your video, I want the zelda timeline, not the zelda multiverse

Ok, hear me out because this is going to be long

I want someone to correct me, because I believe there is a paradox happening.

So as the video stated in OoT you don't time travel you just wait years until link becomes an adult. Then you defeat Ganondorf and get sent back in time before you pull out the sword and become a kid again. But how does Ganondorf stay sealed if you went to the past. If you go back to the past before link waits years, then that means The adult part of OoT never happened because link did not wait, so he did not fight Ganondorf and the adult timeline never happened.

So if we suppose the OoT can break casuality, when link gives Zelda her ocarina back and send him to the past. how does the kid link have a OoT in Majoras Mask if the ocarina should've stayed in the nonexistent future with future Zelda. This means that past Zelda (in the ending) should not have a ocarina because past link took it when Zelda escaped the castle and that is how link got it and later gave to future Zelda. So now there are 2 OoT the one of the adult timeline Zelda used and the one endgame Zelda at one point gave to link so he can lose it at the start of Majoras Mask.

Tl;DR
I believe a time paradox happened so adult timeline needs to disappear after getting sent to the past meaning Ganondorf was never defeated, so you have to defeat him without the master sword in order to save the world, because if link grabs the sword, the loop I explained resets.

Plz don't go hard on me if I forgot key points, it been a long time.

Simply put: The games were never planned ahead, and meant to be placed chronologically at any point. And this "timeline" is just Nintendo trying to solve a non-existent problem, for fanservice purposes and to sell books, obviously.

I see nothing wrong with the story branching into two because of a pivotal event like the hero of time being defeated. They chose that point because that one is especially important since its when Ganondorf first shows up. You could complain about not infinite fallen hero timleines but why just roll with it.

It's kind of a shame that they said that Hyrule Warriors isn't actually part of the timeline. If it were, it would be in the Child Timeline because it only has Skyward Sword, OoT and Twilight Princess in the main story. And because of the crossover with the Adult Timeline, then the Child Timeline would have knowledge of the events of Wind Waker. If BotW were at the end of the Child Timeline, then all the text saying Ruto helping Link and Zelda as a Sage could have referred to her Adult Timeline self coming to help in the fight in Warriors for example.

the official timeline doesnt matter. demise,fi,ghirahim literally only exist in SS and are alluded to in the botw duology. the timeline should honestly shouldve just started a OOT. SS is fine but is superfluous

So i actually disagree

breath of the wild and TOTK is clearly meant and designed to merge the timelines into one again, it is a moment in time that is ment to ALWAYS happen and i can kinda pin point when it does and that is when zelda is flung back 10,000 years into the making and foundation of hyrule, we dont actually know how long she lived in the past before becoming her dragon form, we just know that it happened, when i think it happened was after all three adult, child and yes even the alternate reality fallen timelines ended, in every reality a light dragon appears at some point the light dragon(or spirit) appearing is the connective point of the timelines something that happens in all 3

The idea Ocarina of Time split into two time and makes no sense when you consider that the time-travel they use functions on Back to the Future logic do something in the past it affects the future

The downfall timeline was an insult to the original two games and that pissed me off to no end basically it means that the first two games, the game that started it all, are getting disrespected and relegated to timeline. A Link to the Past was a remake of the original Legend of Zelda, not a prequel and not a sequel.

Just because a couple of games happened to be sequels doesn't mean that there's a timeline for the whole series. Wind Waker was a sequel to Ocarina of Time, a sequel I don't consider Canon because it pulled a happy ending override and drops a bridge on the land of Hyrule, but that doesn't prove that breath of the wild exists in the same timeline. In fact there's an obscene amount of evidence that they take place in completely different universe. Take spectacle Rock for example, it's a feature of Death Mountain in Ocarina of Time whereas in breath of the Wild it's all the way to the Southwest near Gerudo Highlands. The Lost Woods is to the north of Hyrule Castle instead of being far to the Southeast, I could go on. It is geographically impossible for these two games to exist in the same world

Why is it that when Final Fantasy make references to previous games nobody tries to make a timeline out of it and yet with Legend of Zelda.... they're just references for god sakes

After TotK, there's ONLY 1 true explanation that explains EVERYTHING NOW.

They rewrote/erased the timeline's confusion so you only NEED to understand the story of:

- Skyward Sword (The Beginning)
- HW: Age of Calamity* (meh)
- Breath of the Wild (The End)
- Tears of the Kingdom (The End II)

It clears up the confusion of the last 30 games, and streamlines everything so that new AND old players can all play without being bogged down by all the lore, etc.

Ah, Simple Temporal Mechanics...
If you stop thinking linear it makes perfect sense ;)

You just stated why you dont like but it is possible

Tears of the kingdom's timeline barely even lines up with botw. The biggest issue is in order for botw and totk to happen logically, there would need to be duplicates of already existing characters and objects. Either that, or some serious divine bullshit is required to account for what happens in that game.

But really, the majority of games don't even remotely line up with previous or future games. The ones that certainly do have you playing as the same Link or a Link who sees characters that existed in previous games (spirit tracks). Even in a game like MM it can be hard to make sense of how that Link correlates to their previous iteration.

So the Thing about the time line its self is..... It really never mattered. Least as I see it. I remember when they released that time line. It was JUST after Skyward Sword came out. And since the entire game was centered around things before Hyrule it was the First game that really mattered in any kinda placement. Also before that for a few years Nintendo was bombarded with requests for a time line. Time line Theories were a huge thing online around video games. Zelda fans were Foaming at the MOUTH for one. So New game just released that could REALLY benifit from a time line + Demand for a Time line. + third party published media = More money and hype for a released game. Heck its notated that supposedly the Time line was always kept secret... Even from developers and writers and Programmers. Heck before the Time line publish.. Everyone from nintendo gave different answers. Even the people INCHARGE of the games.
In the end I am convinced that The time line was just something Nintendo was like. Sure Here you go. After they cobbled together something that accounted for the current games even if it made no real sense and relied on Split time lines and Leaps of Logic.
While the games reference each other. They always do so as legends or things of the past. They are never fully accurate. And Games will Completly IGNORE things that were suppose to happen on the same time line.
In the End I think its a fun thinking excercise. But I also think the Fans are the ones that care. Not the creators and they are not making games with thoughts on how they fit the time line or take into account past games. Sometimes they will throw something in that does. But over all its a Way down on list of things they think about for a Zelda Story. Which just leaves us fans here to make giant leaps of logic to explain the games and means the Time line could change at litterally any time.

Not forgetting your completely wrong abandoned timeline 😔

not originaly my idea but the timeline i subscribe to

|<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|
| |<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<| |
| | |>>>7 yer slepy link >| | |
|demize fight-|-|-sky|--pre split--\----| \----/--- adalt timeline | |
| |>>>>| \ \---- fallen or "abandend" timeline | totk |
|<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<| \ child time line |

My biggest gripe with the Fallen Hero timeline is that it basically makes Link's face-off with Ganondorf in OoT meaningless. Link defeats Ganon as an adult, the Sages seal him away in that timeline. Link gets sent back to the past, and the Sages seal him away in that timeline(Twilight Princess). Link dies to Ganon/Ganondorf? The sages STILL seal him away...somehow. Honestly, after granting power to the sages, the Hero of Time should have just kicked back and enjoyed an ice cold beer while the sages do what they do in every timeline... seal Ganon away.

Personally, I'd put Link to the past, LoZ 1, and Loz 2 as the emerging timeline instead. I'm not a overly learned Zelda player, but those games are basically when Ganadorf becomes Ganon. I think that the timelines reconnect with a reborn with altering one of the 3 into something completely different.

Then Tears of the Kingdom happen and the whole thing seems like "wild" might be another reality...

There is no over-arching (all encompassing) time line. Nintendo takes a great idea/story and changes it a little adding new game play each time to make MONEY. There is no time line. Also, and I'm probably alone or in the vast minority on this... I do not acknowledge anything "Four Swords", or "Minish Cap" as part of the official Zelda universe. In fact, I believe these stories being SO different are a further evidence that there never was any cohesive time line. My opinion..

You said that the master sword is only in the lost woods in the fallen timeline but it is in the lost woods in the adult timeline too.

Well I’ve always had a weird idea that I feel almost everyone missed. What if the timeline Link was sent to became the child timeline and the other child timeline (the one you traveled back and fourth to with the future) became the downfall timeline?

I mean this could work cause technically Link did lose to Ganondorf as a kid, but much like the Adult Timeline the hero never showed up (or in this case returned) so it was presumed he was killed. Also at the end of OOT we see young Link meet young Zelda but at the point where both hadn’t met before. If this is the case that means Link never interacted with the Zora and Goron in this new timeline.

But hey, that’s just a guess.

I have always felt the fan obsession over the timeline was misguided because Nintendo never cared and neither should we. The "Legend of Zelda" is just that; a legend. It's a story re-told by different authors who each make their own embellishments or changes to suit their own tastes and that of their audience, as well as the story itself being distorted by time and place. Sure, we know that some of the Legends about Zelda are connected in some way and imply a linear sequence of events, but it's pointless to go digging. It will never all add up or make sense because when Nintendo wants to make a game, or someone wants to tell a story, they will just tell the story they want to tell. It's not History and so isn't bound by evidence or logic or facts.

I agree with you though that the "fallen" timeline is dumb and makes no sense at all. Sure, I do agree that the canon of Ocarina of Time does mandate two timelines from that point onward, but that's the only case and is justified in the plot. A Link to the Past following this Fallen timeline doesn't work even on its own because ALTTP doesn't say anything about a Great Hero being defeated. It is pretty explicit that Ganon found the Trifroce, invaded the Kingdom, and was defeated and sealed away... that last part being directly referenced in Ocarina of Time with Ganon even promising to someday hunt down the Sages descendants and break the seal.

I'm not aware of ALTTP ever giving us a direct quote of how long ago the Imprisoning War was, so there is plenty of room there to imagine that what we are told is distorted a bit. The "reality" is that Ganon found the Triforce, invaded from the now corrupted Sacred Realm, and ruled Hyrule for seven years before he was defeated by the Hero and sealed away by the Seven Sages. It's not hard to imagine to how these two events; the invasion and his defeat; being separated by a period of seven years was lost at some point and so the narrative in ALTTP's era is that it was all one great battle.

There is a channel that explains that the Fallen Hero timeline is better defined as “abandoned hero” timeline.

When as an adult link goes back to the past to solve some issues, he can’t simply go back to where he left off. (In the game that does happen just because of gameplay, but logically that wouldn’t be able to happen.)

So the timeline that he “abandoned” he can never go back to save.

When he returns to the future he actually returns to a new timeline. The “triumphant hero” timeline

The whole "What if Link died?" timeline explanation changed it from a timeline to a Zelda Multiverse Theory.
Unless the timeline was split before OoT giving us two different timelines and there was some specific reason why one Link lost and the other didn't, it's really just an exploration of possible outcomes. With this we can make a timeline anywhere Link has the possibility of dying, like maybe one where he drowns in a river or the door on Chris Houlihan's room gets stuck so he starves to death in there.

The Master Sword and the Ocarina of Time are never separated in two of the three timelines. Both exist within the Adult and Child timelines. Adult Zelda sends Adult Link back in time with the ocarina and the sword is used to seal Ganondorf’s power prior to WW. Child Link returns the sword to the Pedestal of Time and then receives the ocarina from Child Zelda before ending up in Termina. In fact, the only time we don’t see the ocarina is in the Downfall timeline.

“Since the Wind Waker intro totally blows that one out of the water,” No pun intended😁

The third time line dosent make sense either way, because then wouldnt the Events of it happen anyway, since Ganondorf coprrupts the sacred Realm with his triforce, which he also has in all the other timelines. So really, they could have put in the Child timeline, and it would work better, that that link is just another one of Link desendance who also has the Heros Spirit.

pretty obvious to me that zelda was never ment to be one long story but later on if i remember right it was wind waker where they decided they wanted all of them to be connected.

A bigger problem I have with the fallen hero timeline is that every game should technically have an alternate reality where the hero loses.

Another problem with moving links awakening on the timeline is that the Oracle games literally end with a cut scene that starts links awakening.

I think instead of a timeline fans of Zelda need to start viewing it more as a multi-verse. I know we’re all sick of the multi-verse storytelling these days but it works here. That’s how games on opposite timelines can reference each other. In that game is history both events happened.

Skyward Sword is the only game that has a definitive place chronologically. Beyond that you take your favorite games and make your own timeline. I think the real idea of the timeline is to allow those that have only played a handful of games to have a solid timeline and those that have played all games to have as many timelines as they want.

The Timeline is big bullshit! Just made for the whiny fanboys to serve them. That's all!

I think all three timelines could exist, what with time being manipulated and all by magic

There could be a timeline where, despite releasing all the Sages, Link still wasn't powerful to defeat Ganon, forcing them and Zelda to think of an alternative

Though, the best thing I can come up with is simply Link being too exhausted. After killing monsters and awakening Sages, his energy is spent, so Ganon is able to deliver the final blow, instead

But then how do you explain the Adult Timeline where he isn't tired? Did he just make sure to drink a potion this time?

Well... yeah. I guess. Link is only human, after all. I don't think it's too far off for him to make a simple mistake. It's just that this is his demise and the fallen era of Hyrule we're talking about. All because he didn't think to take a nap

It's not the answer I want, either

The timeline works the reality in the fallen timeline has to come directly after the fall in ocarina of time because a hero can fall to a demon at any point In key word time so there's the poetic justice the link after the fall goes through so much mind games in oracle's and links awakening because the player is supposed to take Links journey to help themselves on their own journey of enlightenment after they themselves have fallen this is also why the original legend of Zelda comes at the end of this reality because the games are about a hero saving the princess your the hero of your own timeline witch is why the timeline is up for interpretation Praise Jesus for saving us from demons.

I agree there is no fallen timeline, but there also is no adult timeline either. That future wasn’t actually the future, when Link appears to be time traveling, he’s actually moving back and forth from the real world to the dark realm. The dark realm is sealed off by the end of the game, so it doesn’t make sense that it would have its own version of the hero or anything else.
If you are up for a bit of fun, try making a timeline including all of the games from 1986-2011 that: removes the Capcom games ( or gives them their own separate timeline), has only single Impa (so track her age throughout), and respects the relative location of Spectacle Rock.

It makes no sense for the fallen timeline. Link didn't die. But after alttp the original games can't happen. Canon is dead and the Triforce is whole and in the hands of the royal family. So in the og Zelda, how is ganon alive and how does he have a piece of the Triforce?

I always saw the time split happening when Zelda sends link back to the past. The master sword still exists in wind Waker so I assume she sent him back to the past right before he pulled it. So adult Zelda picked up the sword and put it in Hyrule Castle because she can't return it to its pedastal in the temple of time. The ocarina is still in the past too. I cannot defend the fallen timeline. It's like the took the games that didn't fit and chucked them there

I see people worried that Nintendo seems to be abandoning the past games and stories and starting anew with Breath of the Wild as the starting point of a new timeline. I don't see that as a bad thing. They're not retconning the other games and stories out, they're basically just saying that the shattered timeline was fixed at some unknown point. Either by a Hero or by the Golden Goddesses. Or maybe Hylia had enough crap and decided to do it herself. Either way, the damage has been repaired, all those civilizations have been combined into Hyrule. Perhaps even that is what King Rauru did? Maybe his people came as a result of the timeline's restoration to try to keep everyone from coming into conflict over competing claims and later he reunited everyone as a restored and far greater Hyrule? Besides, it makes sense the Goddess of Time wouldn't tolerate the timeline being screwed up.

Given Hylia, the Triforce's presence, the Sacred Realm's presence, etc. It wouldn't surprise me if time has never actually been "solid" in Hyrule. People remembering events and seeing evidence of events that didn't actually happen, but could have happened and thinking this meant they did and or things that did happen not being remembered and leaving no evidence. Hyrule could very well be a distorted place in the world due to the nature of the powers and beings and artifacts concentrated in it and personally involved in its nature and history.

Imagine if Link at the end of Link's Awakening washes up on...Outset Island. Where he is adopted by an old lady and her young granddaughter. Eventually ending up in a new Hyrule being built. And from there eventually the kingdom splits into Holodrum and Labrynna. Later on, Ganon returns and destroys the kingdoms and the hero of that time uses the Triforce to restore the ruined and flooded land of old Hyrule, restoring the forests, animals, etc. and even the people and structures killed and destroyed by the flood. The islanders migrate reconnect with their, ironically, ancestors in the lowland. The people of the wrecked Holodrum and Labrynna also reconnect with the people of old Hyrule and, having an intimate and ancestral connection to that place, together all these locations rejoin the restored Kingdom of Hyrule. The Zonai were sent by the gods at this time to help everyone reunite and serve as arbitrators between the disparate peoples to smooth things over. From there, we know what happens. By marrying Sonia, King Rauru confirms the legitimacy of the royal lineage in her blood as well as showing the favor of the gods to the rebuilding of Hyrule.

How does that sound?

I can see why they'd move Link's Awakening to before Oracle of Seasons and Ages. Aren't all the heroes in one lineage specifically descended from the hero each time he rises? He...kinda has to make babies for that. Being lost in the ocean makes that difficult.

even in the child timeline ganon wins because of stalfos link

The entire timeline thing is a fiasco. Nintendo released this nonsense because they felt pushed. Pushed by fans. Fans. That made me wonder since when fans have that much power over a company like Nintendo. Fans were making this stuff up like forever. Or so it seems. Because in the past before the internet was good, such ideas did not float abroad. Neither were such things ever talked about among my friends. And we were the real video game nerds of our time. But we accepted games the way they are. We understood that The Legend of Zelda is are telling of a Legend. And it was mostly about the Tri-Force . The balance between wisdom, courage and power. With Zelda mostly holding the force of wisdom. Link the force of courage and Ganon representing the ever greedy lust for power. The main idea is to unite the three forces to balance the state of Hyrule. Non of the forces must remain alone forever or take over. That's the premise behind the Legend of Zelda. The Hyrule Historia is fan service of its worst.

Which Zelda game is your ABSOLUTEFAVORITEOFALLTIME?