Analysis: Why We Should Buff More Than Nerf

You should not buff. Buffing is a path to a dumbed down, lower skill product.

A developer of a roguelike game, shattered pixel uses buffs alot and barely uses nerfs. One of many reasons why his game is good

This video and its consequences have been a disaster for twitter conversations

Amazing video!

Interestingly in card games, this mentality leads to the infamous term "power creep". Eventually leading to coin flip where first turn players win. I guess I agree that one way to counter this is to buff second turn players, though so far it just changes into a game of "drawing your out".

theres people seriously disagreeing with this? whats wrong with you??

Video doesn't make any sense. Buffs AND nerfs are both necessary. Games with too much degenerate stuff are boring for a huge margin of gamers.
Game design and balance is a delicate thing that cannot be shortened by "buffs > nerfs", nor the opposite.
It's a case per case basis.
Some things should go, sometimes for the own sake of the character diversity of approches.
Lastly the example of over broken games vs overnerfed games is dumb, because it's arbitrary. Karate is bot bad because it's less broken, it' s bad because it's poorly designed. A game can be cleverly crafted with few options. Footies is a game with little options, but fun. Dbfz was recently buffed to the point it became a clown fest. Sfv and sf4 was better towards the end, with significant nerfs to broken things. And to be honest the needed one or two nerfs more (Elena and Luke). Nobody wants a game with all characters being at those 2 levels, some are already obnoxious enough as is despitr being weaker (Fuerte, Decapre etc).
So this video is a lot of BS, but it's said eloquently so I guess people will agree with it

The take of that video aged like milk. Buffing everyone is stupid, it ruined some games like DBFZ.

I blame this video for the new dbfz patch

A character is too op? Just buff the others.

Extreme cases *shows smash 4 bayonetta clip*

The amount of damage this video did to fighting games and the FGC is incredible...and tragic.

I.... don"t fully agree. Just like you need a balance between balance and fun, you need a balance between buffs and nerfs, otherwise power creep turns it into an entirely different game. Like you said, nerfs can still be fun. It just has to be done right.

I think games should be changed as little as possible. Power creep is dangerous and ruins games.

Balance is hard to do while having a bunch of different characters that each need to feel unique but I don't think developers should avoid striving for it. I actually think SF6 has made some pretty incredible strides in that regard.

Yeah, no

The amount of damage this video did to fighting games is amazing.

I blame this video for the current dbfz patch

bunito eim

Core A gaming quote?
"The ultimate point of buffs and nerfs isn't balance but to make a game that's fun to play and watch"

Many nerfs don't involve taking away anything a character actually does, and just come down to shaving down numbers.

Though sometimes nerfing numbers is a way to try to paper over a deeper design flaw where a character's play really should be changed: like if it's always settling into a binary of OP and unfun to play against or weak.

In that case a nerf with a good compensation buff can be helpful to take away or tone down something problematic, but also keep the character competitive by shifting power to other areas.

The problem with overusing buffs is that it powercreeps the game, making previously balanced things now underpowered.

Look at League of Legends back when Malzahar was released vs now, and note how insane mobility creep got as an example: old and new characters have to be balanced at a much higher power level than before.

A good nerf will be frustrating in the short term, but settle things down into a balanced state in the long term.

A bad nerf will cripple the character by overcompensating and/or not addressing the core issue with a shift in power.

I was half-expecting "The worst thing that can happen if everybody's way too buffed is this" followed by either a clip of hokuto no ken, sailor moon s, or jjbahftf.

Pure balance isn't great, but buffing everything to absurdity is just as bad. The idea is to have multiple tiers of characters and even the weakest have their own niches. It's no good if everyone is a top tier, that removes any and all creativity all the same as if you make everyone literally the same...

just have fun whit it

DNF is a great example as to why this is relatively only good in theory!

If everyone is OP all you get is WH40K

I’ve been watching this video for years… But it just occurred to me that goaltending the shot clock and the three-point line all were introduced to basketball because of one dude

Without even watching the video I agree with the title completely.

Nerf usually lead to more diversity than buffs, like nerf to one top tier character can open breathing room for many lower tier characters or characters which are inherently weak to that character this is not true for buffs usually as they lead to more centralisation unless it's widespread (as you said in SF Rainbow) so nerf can lead to same results with less work than buffs

I remember playing brawl stars back in the day, they made so many characters useless just to balance, but it made the game so unfun, because not only was there still so much unbalance, but they destroyed fun mechanics that could be explored

Dnf duel proved you wrong

Here after ow2

As someone who’s played Destiny 2 since launch, there comes a point where nerfs are an absolute necessity
Such as:
One eyed mask
Spectral blades
Nova warp
Lorley Splendor
Lord of Wolves
The Mountaintop
The Recluse
And many more I’ve probably missed

Great video btw

If you have 1 OP thing and 1 underpowered thing, and you buff the underpowered thing you now have 2 OP things.

Looks like ArcSys took your advice as they announced DNF Duel will not have any nerfs and all patches will be buffs

For every Nerf to moves should be followed by a buff to a next move either dps, extra move, faster or slower and of course an intresting grab because why not throw a mix up or hits that usually cant be done straight after another hit.

I mean I don't think a perfectly balanced game is inherently bad. Look at chess, it's been hugely successful even though it's perfectly balanced and each player has exactly the same pieces and moves at their disposal. So I think this is really on a case-to-case basis, and depends on what a particular game is going for.

Buffs and needs is also about given characters new ways to overcome a problem. Take Ryu’s hadouken and Zangief from the first Street Fighter 2 version, Zangief could hardly get past it so he was given the green hand that by passes it. When making changes to a character, you have to see what options they have to challenge an overpowered attack.

This must be why platform fighters never do well. They can't exactly just strip away moves entirely and have to just tweak numbers. This in return however does ensure that things stay "As exciting" as when the game launched. But the problem with that is if the game wasn't super exciting to start with it falls apart. They can add more characters to platform fighters (which is what tons of them do) but then balancing becomes an issue or you just end up with a bunch of clones that do the same move sets that already exist anyway just different aesthetics.
Multiversus for example I was insanely excited for. Then I realized there was nothing really new or innovative and they keep delaying things. It was Brawlhalla lite.

yo Woolie vs Daigo WTF !!?

ITS SO EASY TO DO IT!, just adapt and stop coping seething and malding so hard, buffing and nerfing? nah just leave the game as it is
WHAT YOU NEED TO DO IS MAKE THE GAME FUN, that's about it, ignore the little whiners like valve does with their games nowadays
there is a reason why TF2 is STILL KING of FPS to this day ya know? but people want CHANGE and let me tell you something
YOU PURCHASED THE PRODUCT AS IT IS, STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT THE PRODUCT BEING UNFAIR AND TRYING TO MAKE DEVELOPERS FEEL BAD AND MAKE THE GAME
TO Y O U R STANDARDS WHEN THERE ARE MANY OTHERS THAT WILL SUFFER BECAUSE I NO LIKE THIS GUN IT NEED NERF BLABLABLA JUST ADAPT, GET BETTER AND STOP
BOTHERING OTHERS BECAUSE ONE KID CAMPED IN ONE AREA AND ONE SHOT YA, what many people don't do is turn on their brains and motor function when playing games
all they want is that sweet sweet 1 hour turn off brain shooty mc shoots a lot and win, specially in matches and if they don't get it they complain in voice chat or get toxic

OR IN SMALL WORDS I SHALL NOW TELL YOU WHAT CRANKY KONG SAYS SO YOU DO NOT HAVE TO READ ANY OF THIS
this is cranky's advice!

GET GOOD AND STOP COMPLAINING, OTHERWISE PLAY ANOTHER GAME AND DON'T RUIN OTHER'S EXPERIENCES BECAUSE YOU WANT THE GAME ALTERED BECAUSE OP SOMETHING
IT WAS AN INTENTIONAL GAME DESIGN NOW QUIT IT BEFORE I HIT YA WITH MY CANE!
- Cranky Kong

Yes nerfing should be done carefully but what is important to remember is that buffing can make the game less exciting too
The fact that buffing generally leads to more excitement doesn't mean that it always is. Sometimes a character is so strong that the excitement in watching the fight is reduced; then if you buff everyone else to be on the same level the game risks becoming stale because of all the powercreep.
Rainbow edition might have had some cool elements but ultimately it was a quirky gimmicky game.
Power creep is a real problem in games and that can make new and old players start to realize that the challenging aspects of their favourite games are now gone

Ive always held the notion that buffs do a lot more for the longevity of the scene because it promotes reasons to pick up otherwise useless characters. In terms of the meta I mean

If you're going to drop 15-20 you might as well do so for a variant that isn't watered down. I'm not sure how nerfs aren't contrary that viewpoint. Their business model is to get you so buzzed about costumes and microtransactions that you don't even notice that the schlock that made the game bearable (or fun if you're stretching the imagination) has now become less approachable

Buffs are designed to expose the qualities of a character. When its their turn to shine, it shows why they are an asset to the engine and the creativity to the designer. Nerfs just patch an idea that was poorly executed in the first place. It just so happens that players do what they were going to do already which is explore what options give them the most play


If it just so happens to be an exploit or a pathway to dominant strategy, that's what people are going to do. Its like saying when an animal finds a watering hole they are going to play nice and let everyone have their fair share as opposed to doing everything in their power to keep it all

I think the general idea of comparing what you gain from what you lose in a balance patch is important, more than just not nerfing anyone. I think your example with Ryu Shoryuken explains this the best, as it adds a bit more depth to the game.

I completely agree
Buff the top teirs instead of nerfing them and make people adapt

Everybody gangsta till the game powercreepes because of buffing

Then we have characters who just need redesigns, like ya boy little mac

Nerfing is still pretty good if it’s subtle or minor than removing power of the characters. Cuz in a developers perspective, it’s must be pretty hard to buff all the weak characters to just keep up with the OP character than to just weaken the OP one.

I demand a resend of the implication that literally anyone has ever enjoyed wobbling.