Medieval swords were (usually) awful - A response to Matt Easton

Before the advent of industrialized society ... and the great uniformity which is a function of mechanized production ... it's perfectly possible that people really did not SEE these flaws. When we watched TV in the 1970s, we did not realize that the picture-quality was poor, because we had never even conceived of HD telly.

Excalibur ?

As a disabled former metal worker, I have to say that was not only interesting, but also moving.

Quality repruduction weapons are better than the originals IMO. That includes Italian Cap & Ball pistols and such. Not to mention the metals used today. Thanks for the share!!

I love this video. When I picture an authentic medieval weapon I expect flaws, tool marks, and other imperfections. I would be disappointed if I bought a replica weapon that looked like it was made in a factory.

So what you are saying is that most craft men are shitty in all ages. I totally agree. Work ethics have always been low for most people. Seem like a shitty excuse. It is still no good argument for the claim that people didn't care. They, as we are some today who actually care, just had to live with the fact that most craft men are incompetent assholes who invented planned obsolescence long before modern bullshit printers.

No, it is not that they just didn't care. But that their expectations matched their abilities and resources. It would be like saying old British football players from the start of the century didn't want to win, since they trot along at a laughable slow pace. It is all a matter of expectations. Some kings couldn't find any blacksmiths matchings their expectations. Just like I can't find even a single decent craftsman to work on my house
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The original blade were also old and used when you measured it.

the T-34 tank in ww2 is the perfect example of this philosophy. Not perfect and in many ways inadequate but it was good enough for the job at hand. Functionality and speed of production vs the German tanks that wereperfect and slow to build. If the Germans had adopted the functional mind set they would have built many more tanks

Brilliant.

I'd rather have an item that has character than a perfect piece that doesn't even breathe. Nicely done, sir.

Perfect symmetry didn't exist. Humans and animals are not perfectly symmetrical. The ground is not symmetrical. Nature is not perfectly symmetrical... Everything build was for practical use first, looks were second. If you need to provide an army with swords people didn't waste time to 'fix' things that don't affect the performance of the product. Nothing was made just to make money. Everything had a function. Now 99% of available products are just made to make money. No-ones life depends on these products. Society wouldn't change a whole lot if most companies didn't exist. In mideaval times, if there was no blacksmith it was just waiting for your land to be taken. People who had a job were contributing to society in one way or another. Luxery items were only for royals.

the thing about maschining vs handcraft is, yes handcrafted things will never archieve perfect symetry and 100% accuracy, but handcrafted things often have one advantage.

that is that the craftsmen can stop mid process and be like, hang on a minute, this solution is really dumb it won't work well im gonna try something else, resulting in a well thought out product that works, and probably has less failures.

were maschined things, are often fully designed on the computer and for us humans its actually quite difficult to fully understand the limitations of materials when not directly working with them, so what happens is that they often have design flaws, simple things that the designer hadn't thought about.
thats how the same things still improve today, overlooked flaws in design get ironed out.

This reminds me of miniature painting. Because I know the work that goes into painting them, any tiny issue really annoys me. But show it to someone else who doesn't paint them, and they think they are perfect. Because you are an experienced maker, you notice it? i.e. the general public/buyers in the Middie Ages just didn't know any better?

The distinction is that the medieval warrior was buying we real weapon. We, the modern collectors, are not buying a "real" weapon-- as in something we KNOW we will have to use as intended, sooner or later-- but an "idealized" weapon.

Sword fights are just people hitting each other with iron bars. If it works, it works.

I used to think we have more precision in all our tools. The more I learn about fabrication/blacksmithing/etc the more I realize that the only real difference is that we are nit picky with how much we use calipers, we have much better lighting, and we all wear glasses. They were amazing craftsmen, and they did have calipers, but they didn't have extremely bright and reliable lighting, and quite a lot of them didn't have 20/20 vision.
I chalk it up to the precision we need in firearms. If a sword handle is a few mil off or the fuller isn't perfectly straight it makes no difference to your stab, but if a gun barrel is a mil off you are not going to hit what you are aiming at. A medieval person could happily go to war with a crude club if that is all they had handy. And you know what? A club is a perfectly valid murder tool when needs must.

What about the fact medieval people were very often smaller than modern people? Would that not change where and how say... that dirk, were held? Even if not by much?

you know and so do I as someone that hammers out steal just as a hobby that pieces were made from pieces that failed on some points, but someone liked the way the length the weight whatever I wanted it made and now they’re in museums and our parts of our history reusing scrap because they can afford it or because they liked the way it was

I only speak for myself, but if I wanted a sword or blade from history that I could not touch handle or how I would ask you to make me the original if I wanted that and there is I hope others that would want that to

You’re exactly right I’m only a hobby maker and a historic reenactor perfection was only found in a few pieces and even then they were not perfect compared to modern times using modern technology. They were the best they could do at the time that they did them their hire pieces went to higher, paying clients their lower pieces went to lower paying clients, all they had to prove is the blades would not break or bend and used in combat depending on where they got their steel is who the client got-lower end went to those that can afford it. The higher end went to those second afford it. As long as they made good Blades they had a market, and it depended on where the steel came from and what they got to make it from your right the tools were rough. The steel was questionable. They did their best, and they sold their wares

Hi Tod. Maybe you remember me? The man with the bad English ;-) I brought you the Solingen catalog "Das Schwert Gestalt und Gedanke" to the Minden reenactor fair. This exact video made me do it! I can't think of anyone (except perhaps Matt Easton) who could use such a work better - and who would value it more. Please keep it up, maybe you can get even better results - if at all possible - from the scientific findings of the Solingen experts including Peter Johnson and his work. People who put their hearts into something are rare in this world. In my opinion, you are one of these people. And since I learned this craft myself, I appreciate it.

Hi Tod. Vielleicht erinnerst Du dich an mich? Der Mann mit dem schlechten Englisch ;-) Ich habe Dir den Solingen-Katalog "Das Schwert Gestalt und Gedanke" mitgebracht zur Mindener Reenactor-Messe. Genau dieses Video hat mich dazu gebracht! Ich wüsste niemanden ( von Matt Easton abgesehen vielleicht), der ein solches Werk besser verwenden könnte- und der es mehr wert wäre. Bitte mach weiter so, vielleicht kannst Du aus den wissenschaftlichen Erkenntnissen der Solinger Experten inkl. Peter Johnson und seiner Arbeit noch bessere Ergebnisse - wenn überhaupt möglich - ziehen. Menschen, die mit ihrem Herzen einer Sache gehören sind selten auf dieser Welt. Du bist meiner Meinung nach einer dieser Menschen. Und da ich selber dieses Handwerk einmal erlernt habe, weiß ich es zu schätzen.

fascinating spur to reflection on the ' reality' of Art and of cause Crafts. William Morris understood this. My only sword is a dress sword used in the past in Masonic ritual. Totally inapropriate for a Gwyddon working in Eryrie in an ancient tradition dating back to medaevil times. Amusingly masculine adverts accompanying this video

If the Product is made with medeival tools, a higher price for a imperfect is acceptable. If modern powertools are used for the same price, then I expect a more perfect product.

I agree with this. My belief is that sword buyers expect a replica to look like their fantasy vision of what a medieval sword would be. Excellent video.

Actually this is something I've also noticed when it comes to recreating old celtic or norse knotwork and other general motiffs. People now get tatoos and tshirts with recreated designs that are perfectly simmetrical and have crisp edges. And to me they look like kitsch shite. We're in love with those ancient patterns because they're made by people with rudimentary tools and that makes up for 90% of the personality and the spirit of the piece.

I suppose the quality of the weapon in Medieval times was much like today, you get what you pay for, a cheap £40 Chinese made Katana will still kill you but wouldn't last 5 minutes in a battle, whereas, a hand made Japanese Katana costing several thousands of pounds could be battle worthy and become the heirloom of the future. A quality sword was out of the reach for all except the wealthy and nobility, but everyday items such as scythes, bill-hooks, axes etc were crude, strong and affordable

I am sure a lot of it is these were used items. They were beaten in combat and damaged and repaired and then used and beaten and repaired maybe many times. chipped blade gets filed down and resharpened and profiled. Pommel starts to come loose it gets beaten and tightened. Something bent and then straightened. They were tools. How many of you have had tools for years that were well used and beat up but still very functional? Or your car you have had for 15 years its still the same car but its been beat up a bit and repaired by a half dozen different people and its just not the same.

Makes me feel alot better, finishing up my first ever sword build, tried to do it as traditionally as possible. Started with quater inch steel chunnk instead of bar stock, made tools i needed to drift holes and set a fuller, i did tig weld a bolt onto the tang for a threaded pommel, dont think thats historically accurate. Its got a bunch of very small imperfections but god i love it so much

If you put a sword to heavy use, you’re likely going to bend, twist and displace the metal and the fit.

It’s likely why for most swords, smiths were content with “good” rather than perfect.

For most men-at-arms, they would be looking after one sword for years, and likely have to fit and refit pieces of the weapon as it was battered through use.

The only people who could likely expect excellence from their weapons were high lords and princes. Even then, after one battle, if it wasn’t heavily damaged and required to be replaced in part or as a whole, I’d be surprised.

Tod, love your work sir! Please could you give us a short show on where the best places to go in the UK to see some of the best medieval armour collections? I am sure you have a wealth of knowledge on this topic and it could help all of us who are intersted in getting a dream list of collections to see. Many thanks.

I wanna buy your ugliest sword lol

I'm a maker, I've learned a couple of phrases to get over the voice that screams "it's not perfect" when I see flaws in my work.
"It's not perfect, neither am I."
"Oh, that little oops right there? Wabi-sabi. It's character."
"Close enough for me."
"I'm not going spend the next three and a half hours to try to fix that."

I bet people in the past had similar thoughts.

Nothing made by a flawed system (such as a human) can ever be perfect.
But that's the point; the imperfections make the whole so much better.

Anyone familiar with Warhammer 40k and Fulgrim knows exactly what I mean :D

Thank you. It really resonates with doing things creatively in other fields, and with making decisions about life itself. It's not only a liberating thing (oh, we can faff about and call it good), it's a goal-setting thing, as you describe in the last part. Prioritizing immediacy and emergency and respect for material (be it metal or people) is paramount to not making cookie cutter stuff.

Haha I have a Scubapro titanium dive knife with a rubberised handle and the guard on it rattles a bit. Used to drive me nuts until I figured out that it really doesn't matter at all. I also have a Dive Dynamics stainless steel dive knife and the whole thing is machined out of a single piece of material so the guard on that deffo does not rattle.

I would think that a lot of Medieval work back then, was done by eye, if it looked right, it was to them. Look at buildings of the era, were they square and vertical. No! Even today, hand work such as beaten silver/copper etc is still not as perfect as machine made. A very valid point you made is the time constraint. While the Japanese master craftsman spent hundreds of hours over a sword blade, did it do the job any better? Rather like the British car and motorbike industry, if it worked well to a certain standard, it was churned out in numbers. They could have been better, but they were built down to a price.

Part of it is knowledge, nowadays we have books and the internet so you get "tips and tricks" or "this one trick" and it can make a difference. Be doing something for years and then you see someone doing it in seconds vs minutes. Back then you self learned, were thought by the master (but how much?) and guilds and such kept information in house. The smae goise for the metal supplier and tool makers, if you were taught well had good tools and materials, you were ahead of the other guy, especially if you had time given for an order. Some stuff is "tomorrow" and some is deliver it on market day next month jobs.

I think they might have cared about being perfect but their definition would have been a lot different. Like you said nature has no symmetry but its perfect and a marvellous work of god (to their knowing at least) so if their work looked like a natural piece of beauty, then it was perfect. they never knew perfect symmetry in their lives. our standards are based on growing up with machined precision symmetry. we're just completely different people with different values

im a believer in the "so long as it does what i need it to do, its good enough" mentality, i dont care if its the laziest made piece of crap made from scraps lying around, if it can hold an edge and cut, thats all i need from a knife, ive seen people turn old metal rulers into amazing knives, just by adding a handle and grinding the edge a bit

What you are really telling me is that if I ever find myself with a time machine I need to take crates and crates of modern reproductions back to sell for loads of gold.

Good day to all good people. As a time traveller from the Medieval era ... My concerns regarding swords & daggers were ...
(1) Status, indicating ones place in society ... (2) functionality, wherein, the weapon in question must be able to reliably "deliver" ( perfect symmetry of such weapons are of little importance)

Simmetry and squareness are modern concepts coming after the industrial revolution. Before that everything was hand made even in mass produced items. They didn't care about the perfectly square walls of their homes simply because they didn't have to fit IKEA's pieces of furniture in them. That's it.

I agree, but taking museum pieces as examples of how they would’ve looked is a bit iffy. Those are very old, allot has happened to the objects as time passed. So they would’ve probably looked a whole lot cleaner when they were fresh from the blacksmith.

Everyone Who Has An Interest In Viking Age And Medieval Swords MUST SEE Peter Johnsson's '' THE VIKING SWORD WHAT IT WAS AND WAS NOT'' This Video Should Go Viral !!! But Read The Newest Comments First To Really Understand.

Here’s the thing, it depends on what the buyer is looking for. Can someone make swords that buyers/collectors want that are extremely close to the original sword being copied right down to the asymmetry that is present in the original sword, yes. Do collectors want those asymmetries, well that is up to the buyer. Today’s standards are completely different so if a buyer wants close to perfection then that’s expectation of the buyer and everyone has an idea of what they want. I don’t think they are being marketed properly because no smith wants to state their products have asymmetries or variances because people see that and will likely prefer to skip something that isn’t to the standard they want. Education and information go a long way but also understanding what you want from a smith or sword and communicating that between each other is necessary.

"They don't make them like they used to" is almost inevitably a comparison of a hand-made product with a mass produced one. While standardisation is far easier for mass-production, quality control and level of finish/detail is likewise harder.

The modern design tends to be equal or even objectively better, though the execution of that design...well now...

Ultimately we don't buy good products, we admire them while finding a close yet cheap approximation. "Good enough"

You could paint sword handles onto those big hinges on your shed. They'd look a bit like blunt type 14s.

The medival swords were also made on a charcoal forge. Modern swords are made using natural gas and power hammers. They're too PERFECT.