Angel - Death of Wesley

Why do I have a feeling that Angel kinda predicted the death of another Fred and Wesley?

I just watched angel for the first time and fell in love with illirya instantly and seeing her hold the man she loved in his last breath was heart wrenching heart breaking I want to give them both a hug

And the Smurf kicked Butt.

This is consistent with what was established on Buffy. Vampires are demons that infect and take over the bodies of humans (an idea that was first explored in the Sonja Blue novels of of Nancy A. Collins). They then acquire the memories and personality traits of the host--have emotions they otherwise could not feel. This is what happened with Illyria taking over Fred's body. Against her will, even though Fred's soul is apparently gone forever--Illyria is given Fred's memories, along with her ability to love--something Illyria never wanted, but can't suppress. Fred ends up possessing her possessor. It's a pretty neat idea. Sorry it wasn't explored further, but then again, this was a far better series finale than Buffy got. (Far as I'm concerned, Buffy ended in season three).

Fred was always there, a part of Illyria.

The layers in this really are something incredible. The Buffyverse puts so much emphasis on 'the soul', but the essence of a person is their memories which Illyria has/can feel as if they were her own. Now given her behaviour in this episode (and after his death) it's safe to say she was developing strong feelings for him as a very close ally, so in a way it's like Fred was falling in love with him all over again!

My only complain about this was the cramped nature of the episode made everything feel rushed & this deserved WAY more build up. The scene itself is beautiful, with the perfect finish too - I still cheer on rewatches when she blows apart his skull with one punch lmao

Just few seconds more and they had managed 😢 Such a perfect death 😢

This season did a really good job of ripping every fan's hearts to shreds! Wesley really became my favorite character. Seeing where he began and how the experiences and hard choices that befell him changed him was really impactful. Alexis is a tremendous actor taking Wesley from this nerdy, awkward, bookish Watcher to a very gruff, hardened, but wounded man who he knew the sacrifices that had to be made, even as much as it ripped him apart. Bravo! I remember just welling up watching this when it premiered. It really is a great series finale, as much as it pained us to see the never-ending battle rage on without us.

I still remember the first time I saw this scene. I was 12. I cried for at least an hour... Wesley was my favorite, at that moment I didn't expect him to die… it’s so sad, but at the same time one of the best scenes on tv ever

I really liked Gunn and Fred as a couple and I was always pissed at Wesley for breaking them up. So this scene is kind of satisfying for me.

It's not exactly a lie. Fred is waiting for him.

I have not yet read the comics. So to me it begs the question if the warlock survived because he even says he can bend reality to his will. He could just as soon have fabricated his death to Illyria. Someone let me know if he is featured in the comics?

Amy Acker is still a babe

Lorne is the only member of team angel to survive. I kinda wished there was a scene talking to buffy about that.

It was a suicide mission.Angel should've dealt the cards better for the last battle

The way Amy is able to switch from her natural voice to this deep / godlike monster is outstanding. It entirely solds the character and boy, I wasn't convinced when I first saw Illyria, she just looked like the sweet and vulnerable Fred with outdated make up (I am new to the show)

Same for Alexis and how he made Wes evolve from his first ep on Buffy to his last on Angel.

To see illyria show emotion like that was so sad she geniunly loved and cared about wesley since wesley was her friend even after she took over freds body.

I cry like a colicky baby every time I watch this scene 😢

Fred was definitely still part of Illyria, whatever you want to call it I think she gave humanity to Illyria somehow. Fred's memories and feelings affected Illyria and that's why she felt so connected to Wesley. It's why she remained at the offices with them, she was still insanely was trying and could've been a villain and wreaked havoc. But she stayed and chose to fight alongside them bc Fred is still in there somewhere.

This is heartbreaking. Knowing Fred's soul was consumed in summoning Illyria, Wes wanted to see her one last time before dying.😢

“Take your best shot, little girl.”
“Well, if you insist” head explodes from the force of Illyrias punch. Always loved how this scene ends.
I admit I was never a big fan of Fred but I loved the hell out of Illyria. Amy Ackerman was amazing in this show

Saying goodbye to a person who doesn't love you the same but still cares...

If Wesley had just waited a bit longer before trying to stab Cyrus Vail and tried to stall, Illyria could have saved him. I really hated that we didn't get a sixth season of this show. I mean we have the comics I guess, but it isn't the same.

In all honesty, to get the full impact of "Buffy" you need to see "Angel" and vice versa. Joss gets it, that's why "The Avengers" was so successful. That being said, this scene is outright, insanely sad.

I love how even when she turned back to fred you can still see Illyria in the way her hair lays

tears every single time...

Wesley Wyndam-Pryce : "The first lesson a watcher learns is to separate truth from illusion. Because in the world of magics, it's the hardest thing to do." Illyria became Fred: both Wesley and Cyvus Vail both believed Illyria was Fred. There was no illusion.

Wesley’s character came so far. Props to the actor!

Wesley character development was nothing short of spectacular and I feel if the show had got another season him and Illyria would have been an amazing couple one a tortured soul the other an exiled God sounds like an epic love tale if ever it did

Ugh that whole "we will be together again" or whatever line. Knowing she was lying since she devoured freds soul to be reborn. Wesley never sees her again in this life or the next.

The saddest thing here is that he knows Fred’s soul was destroyed.

Amy Acker in the last season was amazing in this character 😮

I love that we still don't know if she is really lying to him or if she can kind of release the real Fred for a moment. I know that lore wise Fred is gone, but in this scene I let it be ambiguous to myself.

This all could have been prevented if angel had stayed away from the black Thorn. Jesus Christ. Who knows if it was even really cordy who gave him that vision

this made me cry & I NEVER ever cry I didn't even cry when my own FATHER passed away

There no fury as a women scorn

One of the best scenes from Angel!

Demon: this fight was never for mortals.

Illyria: bet.

April 2023, and I'm still crying, thanks.

The real "lie" in that scene, and the ultimate tragedy, was the "and soon you'll be where I am. We will be together".

The problem is....Fred is not dead, she's much worse. Her soul was destroyed by Aleria's birth, fred is truly and utterly gone. There is no happy ending for Wesley:(

"Would you like me to lie to you now?"
Good writing.

The most powerful line in this scene would you like me to lie to you now. Wow😢

To me, this scene proves, without a shadow of a doubt, that Illyria cared for Wesley, even if it is in her own way. There is no way to possibly rationalize her lying/comforting him otherwise. It only serves to give her companion she cared about something she knew would appeal to him. A complete and utter selfless act for a man she now cannot deny she cared for.

Isn't Freddie supposed to be a student out of a college and he an man in his 40's ? It was creepy how he kept fawning over her

I really wish wesley had been given a better end then simply being stabbed. I really was hoping after all the hell he had been through he could have gone out over the top.

Incredible scene. I honestly feel Fred who is supposed to be in Illyria still, cracked out to say goodbye as well as Illyria fell in love with Wesley a bit.

And just as awesome when the warlock says “his pointless death.” I was thinking, yeah it did nothing except make you lower your guard. BOOM!

Having never liked Wesley for even a second of screen time the only thing I get from this is a good face collapsing.

I still cry during this scene even after all these years

so sad. remember when tv was this good, not preachy!