What is the Java Job delusion?

Im currently starting a new Java project at a mid sized company using Quarkus. It's like a lighter spring boot. Having lots of fun working on it so far.

while im still learing java how i can use my java knowledge what should I do to improve it Im little lost :<

Thank you so much for the breakdown. This has given me a lot to think about when it comes to career decisions I'm struggling with right now

cool video)

learned java in school worked with c# and javascript/typecript i think want to work with go and rust

Stefan:
“I won’t use Java for a startup because it’s so verbose”

IntelliJ + Lombok + Spring Boot:

Hold my beer

Stefan but now we are writing with AI ! this will revolutionize java with AI as well we need the speed and those who implement Java dev with AI co-pilots will excel!

My mentor often says, to learn concepts not language's syntax. And Java has solid concepts you can learn and implement even in frontend (angular)

Spring boot is in HUGE demand and is used by every other startup or small business. Java is NOT mainly for large businesses. And with all the new features since maybe Java 17/18, it is much more dynamic and versatile.

For a moment i thought you were about to say that the delusions are that java is dying and there will be no more jobs in java, but i never had any delusions about java used in GAMING, or desktop, ui on the web with javascript has become completly chaotic and bottomless pit of neverending framework.
But i'm not so sure about iot stuff (i mean from server side pov)

Doesn't matter what we think as programmers, the fact of the matter is Java has the most job opportunities of any programming language out there.

I wish somebody told me that 4 years ago...

Isn't it true that now with the help of AI like gpt, write time of any language would be considerably faster? If so, the run time speed should be considered more.

Not sure why I keep hearing Jeva

So in this case would C# be better to learn for backend development?

2 years of exp with javascript still no job, so will go to Java. Wish me luck

By in large most of what he says is simply made up with respect to today. There's not actual data provided to support these claims either. Startups are using Java as well as small, medium or large orgs. I did a search for Java jobs on several sites, and the reality is I found ZERO large company jobs. What I found was mostly medium to smaller businesses requesting Java. AND most of what he says about the verbosity of Java has dramatically changed from the 2000's. Most of what was verbose is gone. And what other languages have done has been to adopt some of the things that people claim makes Java verbose. Static typing has made a come back (see Typescript, Go or Rust). Javascripts big claim to write speed was that it was interpreted and you didn't have to recompile your code. Javascript has costly bundlers, transpilers and complex build processes now. Again Typescript MUST be compiled before it can operate so it too must be compiled. Even deployment of Java has changed. Now Java isn't being deployed with War files or dreaded EAR files. It's run just like any other program in a self contained jar file that the server is apart of the program. This drastically improves the cost of restarting your program. What he says WAS the case, but reality has moved on from this old belief about Java.

In all fairness, nobody writes Java with a simple plain text editor, everybody uses an IDE that writes 95% of the Java code for you so the verbosity aspect of Java isn't that big of an issue really.

does that means that whatever new release that comes out from java of spring boot framework, it might be not common that companies will be upgrading to new version, as you said mostly legacy code that a java developer typically do in the job

Wonderful video on this topic. Thanks 👍

All languages are verbose what type of compliant is that lol

for the life of me I have no idea what prevents you from creating small and fast projects in spring boot?
I swear new spring boot rest service is like 15 minutes. icluding db config in local docker and even maybe couple small tests.

The most important thing in a corporate environment is code readability. Far more so than how long it takes to write code. A senior developer will typically spend 80% of his/her time to read and understand existing code that needs changes.

So what you're saying is Golang would be amazing as it has the simplicity, epic write time speed, easily maintained, fast to compile and is fast!

You'll probably be working with a bunch of pricks. Why don't you just say it man?

You must have a great job. Congratulations! They are rare. I started programming in Java when it was a new language. I've been developing Java for over 30 years now. I've encountered all kinds of employers since then. I'm still developing new Java Apps. I'm also maintaining legacy code. This is the life of a software developer. You speak in generalizations which apply no matter whether it's a new langauge, an old language. It doesn't matter if your young or if your old. It doesn't matter who you work for. The soft skills you speak about are important everywhere. Javascript, and Python are older technologies than Java. There are many legacy apps that are written in Java. Many companies are still using Java. Java, like most languages, will grow and stay relevant. You do say some thigs that are true. A company will use whatever technology is important to their business. Consider where and what you want to do and work towards that goal.

ok, so no Java for me 😶

Nobody is gonna write server code in JS or PHP. Python is data science, ML & AI...Horses for courses. That leaves Java, C#, C++, Rust...

TBH Java is a mid-speed language C/C++/Rust/Zig are faster. I'm language agnostic for me, it's paradigm OOP, Functional, Structure/Procedural & TDD. Class is a class as is if, switch/case etc are all the same in every language...You'll learn any language's syntax and libraries if you understand programming. Speed of execution, low latency, scalability are important, it's a balance. JS, PHP, HTML & CSS these are just front-end internet browser GUI languages they are to the web front-ends what SQL is to DBs. Java/C++/C# are all-round languages, Python is a more specialised in Data Science/ML/AI fields...Comparing JavaScript to a Java/C++/C#/Python/Cuda programmer is like comparing an Uber driver to an F1 driver both are professional drivers...

thanks

What about the type of clothing such as piercings or tattoos? Are there any problems with that in a business environment? I wouldn't have a problem hiding them but I mean are there any problems when it comes to hiring you?

How long it takes starting from zero to get a job?

I'm a Java developer and you got it perfectly

Java is big in financial trading systems. If you want work in investment banking, quants, hedge-funds etc...

Maybe you are not up-to-date. Spring Boot is very lightweight, bare minimum boiler plate code and config. No more xml, simple yaml config file or annotation driven. Very performant and the standard "de facto" for every modern Java development, suitable even for startups. Obviously legacy code is a different story but this apply to every language. Still a very good overview from you.

Lol chasing semicolons

I don't think the verbosity is a problem nowadays. As you've just said, kotlin is now a brand new jvm language that addresses this 'drawback', and so any java developer can easily get up and running with the jvm ecosystem but with the newfound kotlin, and can even switch back and forth thanks to bidirectional interpolation. Java is also far from being confined to server-side with huge projects outthere being written in java.
As for the android side of things, there's still much legacy code written in Java, so a 'smidge' is a huge underestimation.

The original C++ language did not have a direct compiler. You would write your C++ program, and, then run it through a utility, I don't know what to call it, that would turn it into pure C source code, and, then compile the C source into a functioning program. Anything like that for Java? Something that is not wordy?

Maybe I worked for corporations too long, but interpersonal skills have always been more important than coding in my software career.

Do not listen to this Punk; coding is a business like any other you have to be a professional. This Punk is steering you wrong!

I call BS; I write code for the big guys; and Runtime speed is really important. You must do kid programming Punk. I would kick you out of my shop. Punk.

I have big issues with your claims about Java being verbose and heavy. You do admit you have not touched Spring/Boot in a while, and I bet you have not tried Quarkus, Mucronaut or Helidon. Or modern java 17+, GraalVM, it seems.
... But I am far mote sceptical about Kotlin. As google pushes Flutter/Dart there is no future for Kotkin on Android anymore, which means it has to compete with Java on the sever side. That does not end well (just ask Scala or Groovy).
As far established companies use java, startups use other stuff, this is partly true . But startups fail a lot more (fir various reasons) so it us not coear if that technology choisr is the right one. Very often, thise starups ggat survive, choise to rewrite their app on java...

I think you are a little bit out of touch with the current java landscape.

Where I work we've started up a new, large project that's completely separate from the rest of the codebase. It's using java and quarkus.

I did my 3rd semester project in java, and then my final year project for the completion of BSCS. And i love java since then, as you mentioned here i too love the explicitness of Java, plus the fact that it has excellent IDE support (which makes the developers' life a lot easier). Also it gives you the power to develop desktop (windows, mac, linux), mobile, and web apps. But seeing it go off the development landscape is heartbreaking for me. The fact that desktop apps aren't in demand anymore (large organizations which develop desktop apps usually develop their apps in c++ for obvious reasons), google have almost phased out Java in favor of Kotlin (not bcz of the benefits of Kotlin but bcz Oracle tried to sue Google over the use of java in Android), and of course the availability of Node.js have shaken the web development world, and java wasn't even close to PHP or ASP. NET in backed development tools.

I agree with your assertion regarding the type of work you will be doing with Java, you have pretty much described the first five years of my programming career.