Anora isn't an independent film

Anora’s win should instead be seen as a win for independent filmMAKERS. If Sean was able to go from nothing to Best Picture after making films he loved and was passionate about, why not? It’s just that The Oscars and all those award shows always blow things up to undermine real indie projects.

I'm late to the party but seeing Diarrhea Brothers so thoroughly snubbed this year at the Oscars made me never want to watch again

100% agreed! Doing my film for this year’s instead of watching the Oscar’s, Make a Movie! Made me really how Freeing making a movie now is

I don’t think the budget talk is an entirely fair parameter here, as in “anything over 100,000 is not really independent,” because there are cases like Eraserhead or something where the money and movie are made very slowly over years. Somebody could do the same but push Eraserhead’s 100k a little higher and it’d still be independent

low budget 6 million dollars.. I could shoot a FILM for 50k.

like if someone loses 40 million on an art project they belong in prison imo

The movie was independently raised and the movie was made, finished, and screened festivals without a distributor - just because it crosses an imaginary budget line that you made up doesn't take this away from it. Having financiers wanting to make their money back is not germane to the argument - somebody making a film for $100K is going to want to recoup. Somebody making a film for $20K is going to recoup. These things do not make something made within or outside of a system. If you want to argue semantics, fine, but you can't say you're arguing semantics when you're using a different definition than the one that has been in place for 70 years+.

clerks was technically and morally bad. El Mariachi is the golden child.

Joel did you hear that Thunderbolts is Marvel's first indie film

yeah

Nek minnit at the Oscars: "and the award for Truly Independent film goes to... (10 million dollar film)"

Love how you did this in front of a Cassavetes film poster. Great video, bro.

Filmmaking, like most maturing art forms, has become democratized. You used to have to be wealthy or patron funded to be an artist or a musician, but now almost anyone can afford art supplies or musical instruments. And now almost anyone can afford a video camera and a video editing computer. Filmmaking is becoming something that anyone can do, just like painting or playing the guitar.

Incidentally, I like calling my movies zero budget movies.

I’ve been working on my own truly independent moves. Not movies. Moves. Dance moves.

As a musician who also loves movies its always refreshing hearing someone talk about film the way i talk about music. There are a lot parallels in the industries with how they define "independent" artists and its become more and more difficult to know who has major or even minor label backing as labels know it looks better for smaller artists to appear independent. Luckily we have the means to continue to make our art and learn and grow and hope it speaks to someone and inspires them to make art of their own

Joel sounds so bitter in this video lmao

Get em bro. Same thing happened with """"""""""indie""""""""""""" music

My favourite independent film is "Interstellar" such a small backyard project, but man what a result. 🤣

words ! they don't mean anything anymore it seems !!!! dangerous!

I got asked by the actors in my oscars movie this year, if i was going to upload it to festivals, and even though we're all super proud I know it would never make it through a festival

Did the financier give notes or have any artistic control? If not, its independent enough for me.

I really love your focus on the carfting of art being that, you can.

People get so buried in awards and clout which both scares creator or draws them to create for wrong reasons.

Love this take joel.

Appreciate you talking about this! You're not alone in these opinions. Indie is hard to define generally. Is it a film made outside of the major studios? Is it a small film made by friends but with a big investor (Napoleon Dynamite)? I like the term DIY film, but that isn't completely clear either

Anora should still be considered indie. All movies are a collaborative effort and money will always be a factor. This just seems kinda "no true scotsman"-y.

Megalopolis for example, is independent, despite its budget superseding 100 million

This is such a crap take. Please try learning filmmaking by working on sets, you'll learn a lot.

TELL THEM JOEL!

YES JOEL SLAYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!

real independent film is only seen in abandoned garages with an epson projector and then immediately become lost media

I just want to say I bought some dental floss today because TODAY is the DAY that I start to FLOSS!!!

idk…

Hot take: it actually is NOT controversial or semantics, its just the truth.

Your definition of "indiependent" film is so uneducated, you wouldnt have survived the 80s and 90s. Independend does NOT mean not having a goal to make its budget back. Believe it or not, ALL movies have the goal to find an audience and make money. 5 million dollars in 2024(when in production) is NOT a lot of money, let alone what Sean Baker pulled off. Anora looked like a lot more (used music, locations, production). Believe it or not, Pulp Fiction was considered a indie film in the 90s.

after the $100K - $1 million level (really close to the $100K level) it does not matter if a film is labeled independent - the film has vast resources, so, kind of like a studio movie.

Call the police! "independent"is an advertising word. There is absolutely no criteria or laws concerning it's definition. If you think your audience likes the idea of independently produced films, you put "independently produced" on the poster. It's quite simple, like a pear cider made from 100% pears

Oh look, Joel just figured out it costs a lot of money to make a film and the people who invest all that money want to recoup their costs and make a profit. What's next? A video on how microphones are used to capture sound?

I learned of the importance of "creative control" from radiohead
the evolution of their product throughout their career has stemmed directly from the notion
of maintaining your own artistic integrity, as they saw and knew it was and is a if not the growing problem
in our media world

It's getting to the point where it'll be a genre. Much like indie music. Films with the aesthetic of independent movies. Just another way of taking the limelight off of actual independent film makers. Gotta monopolize!

I fully understand where Joel is coming from, and I pretty much agree, but he's completely missing the point of paying people living wages. You can dreaming of making a truly independent films with little or no money, but that simply means you aren't paying people for their labor then. Sure, some people might want to donate time to something they love, but it's not fair to expect people to give labor for free or a non-living wage.

I think the dividing line that you're zeroing in on is one of the filmmaker's priorities. If the filmmaker has the freedom to only prioritize their vision and nothing else, I think that's what you're wanting to call independent. When millions of dollars get involved, even if it's a fraction of a huge studio movie, the filmmaker is still burdened by additional priorities, trying to make something that will appeal to potential producers, distributors, film festivals, ect. These priorities might not inhibit them making a great movie, but it will affect the process inevitably.

I'd agree we need better language to distinguish these tiers of productions. The scale of filmmaking you're championing should really not be bundled together under an umbrella term with something that costs 6 million.