Let's Talk About Bethesda's Creation Engine

This Creation Engine is so hard outdated, it is unbelievable! It is nearly useless nowadays. Character models are awfull, the grafics are awfull, it is a loading screen simulator and 4 times the details means that this ugly shit is still ugly like before with no visual differences compared to older games but needs more rendering power... Starengine is not finished at all but its is way, way better at this moment than Creation Engine will be in 5 or 10 years. Not only my opinion.

I think Todd Howard is the one holding them back.

CE issues are more than just loading screens. honestly just feels like they are slapping on new paintjobs on the creation engine by improving graphics. while physics is still as jank as it was over a decade ago. they dont iron out the old kinks, they dont make the game FEEL better, it still feels the same. can they improve the CE, sure but i feel like all they do is add and never fix or replace the old. its funny how for YEARS we have said we wanted a new engine because every bethesda game after skyrim have felt dated on release. and i think it is part the engines fault, but i also think its part todds fault. i think he needs to be humbled hard, he doesnt have the midas touch he thinks he have. bethesda have become like ubisoft, they didnt make starfield, they made a bethesda game in space. but atleast ubisoft attempts to refine the formula and sometimes even changes it (a little), while bethesda just changes the paintjob.

Starfield would have truly been epic if it had been scaled back to our solar system with a world similar to The Expanse

Instead of 1000 planets 90% of which are barren wastes, and what like 6-7 major cities in the galaxy, I’d much rather had 10 semi realized planets with traversal options and the ability to actually explore.

@conspiracykill
0 seconds ago
Bethesda is what’s holding Bethesda back. They never achieved AAA dev status they just make games so crappy they keep the engine so modders will be able to make it popular for them. Bethesda shouldn’t even advertise.

While it's not the problem with Bethesda, I do think the creation engine is holding them back, its problems at this point outweigh the benefits. I don't think a third-party engine is the move. If they took a year or two to build a new engine, from scratch, I believe it would finally allow them to really spread their wings and innovate. In the same way the RE Engine and RE7 basically saved Capcom from becoming obsolete, a new engine can help Bethesda become much more efficient, and make better games. They do need to prioritize modders when building it, but at the end of the day, Bethesda need a real kick in the ass or they will become obsolete.

Oh my god get on with it, jesus you like the sound of your own voice.

so many good indie games with "prefab-engines" put this game to shame, there is nothing wrong with the creation enginge but the fact that there is no real goal for the development of this game. there is nothing they tried to convey, no single game mechanic that stands out and for fucks sake there is not a single character in this game.
lots of npcs, lots of lifeless dialog(or monologue rather often) but not a single one has any soul or meaning
this game is flavorless goo

A lack of creativity and quality control is what holds Bethesda back

Honestly I don’t think the engine itself is the problem. I believe the main issue is that Bethesda tried to put too much on the engine. I’m not talking about the lighting or the graphics, i’m talking about the size of the game itself. They tried to do way too much. It is impressive how massive Starfield actually is but it would’ve been better if they focused on 2 systems. One being the sole system and the other a brand new system(with the new planets Atlantis, Akila, Neon, etc. all in one system). However despite the flaws I still love the game. Solid 8/10 for me.

The loading screen problem in Starfield is extreme. particularly for a AAA title released in 2023. There aren't just loading screens between different star systems or from orbit to the surface of planets. Certain shops you go into also uses a loading screen. Most of the dungeons you fight in need a loading screen. Entering and exiting your ship requires a loading screen. Enduring the awful and bitterly dry forced conversations essentially has a loading screen. It's extreme on a level where Bethesda really should have realised well before release that it would be a problem. Ultimately Starfield feels like none of the developers actually spoke to each other. Bethesda took a bunch of systems and assets and mushed them together and kicked it out the door. The main storey arc and dialogue was written by Chat GTP 4.

Thing is I don't think the Creation Engine is at all a problem. And the reason is that modders will fix a lot of these bugs and other issues within weeks of the game's release without the experience of having worked on the game itself before. This tells me that the problem isn't the engine but a failure in the development itself.

Okay, but why TECHNICALLY is it so difficult to implement ladders or vehicles in their engine. Explain the specifics.

Bethesda pre release: it’s our most ambitious project

Bethesda post release: ya maybe not everyone was on board with it

I don't cry engine at every problem.

For me a dead giveaway that the engine is a problem is when you see the same bugs or issues popping up again and again over a series of games made with it. I usually see this as a sign that the engine has something fundamentally wrong with it and has become unmanagable to where those flaws can't be fixed and have to be patched out every time they pop up on a game by game basis. It doesn't immediately mean the engine is bad if it has a few bugs, but if there are a whole lot of major bugs and limitations that cant be fixed and keep reoccurring game after game it usually does indicate that the engine itself is being held together with decades of metaphorical duct tape and prayers and nobody really knows the code well enough any more to actually do anything about it.

It's not the engine. It's the laziness.

A bad craftsman blames his tools. The problem with Bethesda is Todd or Todd's boss. Whichever one of them is keeping the poor performers and/or not hiring the good ones.

See unlike other people I don't think the engine is the problem, it plays well, combat is fun, flying works, and despite people saying the game doesn't look current gen I think the game is very good looking especially compared to past Bethesda games (NPCs can look very bad though)
The problem is, the characters, story, and side quests are all incredibly, INCREDIBLY boring. Every single problem the game has wouldn't matter if the characters, writing, and stories were compelling and made you feel something. Literally anything besides a consistent and constant BOREDOM.
MSQ is the worst part. Multi-verses aren't deep, they're only deep to either children or simple minded people. The MSQ would have been SO much better if it was about humans making first contact with some sort of intelligent alien life rather than half-assed, plot hole filled multiverse crap.
TLDR; Get rid of Emil Pagliarulo

You're needlessly wordy and then "yada yada yada."

Please don't compare starfield with stupid star citizen. Starfirld needs to buck up in wuite a few area. But star citizrn with their stupid simulation system? It has no place in a rpg.

Regarding load screen, they should have allowed player to load direct to space where desired.

1❤nc

Bad carpenters blame their tools.

The mod community confirms that is false. Bethesda is just creatively bankrupt and greedy from how they'd totally charge for modding if there was a way for them to monopolize it. xd

Their greed and horrible management are holding them back. Their seniority clearly suck if they put out this quality stuff

Not knowing how a game engine is fair, but any time you make false or uninformed claim hurts discourse.

Saying that a game has issues is valid. Stating that it's caused by some unrelated can harm discourse by confusing things.

It's like several years back. People who were saying a game was slow because it used if/else instead of switch statements. The game was objectively slow, but that claim was inaccurate fir a ton of mahor reasons.

I am not saying people need to know what an engine is to dislike a game. But if you have claims about an engine you ought to know what you don't know

Yes. And debate? WHERE? I've heard no debate.

Starfield faces look better than Baldur's Gate 3 faces. The NPCs in both games are hideous though.

Their product is unacceptable in 2023. Great studio 10 years ago. New management and engine needed.

The problem is that people defend bad practices.

Yeah I’m sure you use better help lol

Go back and watch the Lex interview with Tod Howard, all you need to know is there. The fundemental malignant tumor is in the approach.

Dude lol, WHAT “hand crafted content”?

The Outer Worlds is better then Starfield and that game was made by Obsidian Entertainment the same folks that made Fallout: New Vegas which was buggy at launch but blame Bethesda for it for giving Obsidian only 18 months and the same engine to the create a new fallout spin-off.
Bethesda and Todd Howard don’t understand that making a game also means completing and finishing a game and not a starting point to a game. The same situation when Fallout 76 released when the game had so many goddam bugs that they didn’t bother fixing or testing their own games. Enough is Enough and Bethesda needs to act up and stop being lazy.

The gaming community claims they are very smart are apparently not so whwn it comes to mere consumerism and supporting quality titles

Engine isn’t the issue the issue is bad list of ideas and mechanics it took years for them to make the game fun is what they said instead they should have used those years to make more detailed store and detailed planets instead of these computer generated rehash dungeons and the same factions . Like where is the ecliptic head quarters

Creation Engine was holding Skyrim back and even arguably Morrowind with its render distance.

Tho Starfield has way bigger problems that engine that should have died 15 years ago.

Its funny that the general public and Content creators is asking this now........

Id like to point out how my boy ItsAGundam pointed this out fucking years ago and people called him stupid and a conspiracy theorist and a Bethesda hater.....

Its not outdated. Its fucking trash.... It was outdated around 6-7 years ago. And since it was outdated at that time with a decade. Its getting to 2 decades too outdated at this point

as someone who created mods with the creation engine and played around with ue4, i dont think its the engines fault. rather the companies ethics towards profit.
you just have to look at the rage engine. the first iteration wasnt all that great. horrible performance to the point where not even todays high end pcs can run gta4 smoothly and the graphics were pretty dated as well.
now compare with the latest title rdr2. its a masterpiece that even 5 years later is almost unrivaled in terms of fidelity and quality.
from my understanding the creation engine carries a lot of technical debt. the base functionality and ui arent all that bad, but its whats under the hood that needs an urgent overhaul as well as not overworking your game devs.
but hey this costs money, and we all now bethesda doesnt have much, right? RIGHT?!!??

No. It's laziness and stupid consumer behavior that's holding them back. Why would a swindler change his ways if you keep swallowing every trick that he pulls off. minimal effort, maximum gains. What efficiency!

I will always point to one of the best videos I've seen on this topic titled "The Creation Engine Did Nothing Wrong".
The dude in the video goes into detail on how the Creation Engine is an end result of Bethesda's "good enough" mindset that they've had since developing Morrowind, as some of the same bugs since Morrowind are still in Starfield 2 decades later. Physics for objects bugging out because Bethesda bolted on Havok physics engine without properly implementing it.
Creation Engine doesn't need to be thrown out, the programmers and ones managing development on the engine do.

I don’t need to be a plumber to know my shitter ain’t working

TO SUM UP THIS VIDEO:
The less hick-ups in video games, the less you break your SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF

Its the same Gamebryo engine theybe been using since morrowind, so, YES, it is holding them back. And you can bet a million dollars theyre going to use it again for TES6. We've already seen behind the scenes footage of TES6 a year ago.

Even if SF had zero loading screens the game would still objectively feel bad it's a mile wide but only 1 inch deep there is no magic of exploring

A good example is VRAGE. VRAGE 1 created some nice content for the time. VRAGE 2 gave the Space Engineer game some necessary updates. But now they are focused on VRAGE 3 with is NOT a shitload of Band-Aids tacked on top of an old engine. It is rewritten to give the players a game they want to spend money on. Bethesda probably should have created a new engine instead of throwing Band-Aids on the old thing.

Everything is holding them back.

I love all the backseat game designers in the comment section lmao

I don't disagree with anything you've said, but I'm also a programmer and understand most of this stuff naturally. The bottom line is bespoke in-house engines require personal investment (i.e., time spent not doing things that make money directly, which of course bethesda hates to do) that enables you to create those "next gen" experiences for your new games. A good engine can be used for many games over several generations, with revisions and new toolsets over time as needed, and as such is an investment into your future games. But every so often you just have to break away and build anew from scratch with something architected and desiged with current hardware in mind and this is what bethesda just resists doing kicking and screaming. Unfortunately (fortunately for them) they have such a loyal fan base that their games will sell millions regardless of how badly they execute, so they are able to get away with it for longer than most. I think Starfield will end up being their reckoning finally though and they're going to have to spend that time investing in building a new modern engine for the next ones. They're owned by microsoft, they can afford it.

God help em if they try to pull this again though LOL