Mary Harrington: Feminism against progress

Truth

This woman talks such incredible good sense, I am humbled to listen to her. The knowledge that we have lost due to the loss of Christian education has wreaked havoc upon our society. Just knowing these things is transformative. This woman though is very pragmatic, she realizes the realities we face also, and is sensitive to what is the right way to proceed.

But of course there had to be the inevitable 'Freddie-isms', here are some of his clangers :

He says she was 'enamoured' with her new way of life - hardly the right word for what she is describing which is of a high moral and truth value - 'enamoured' does not exactly comport with that too well, but its Freddie I guess, what can we expect.

He compared the ability in medieval times of women to publicly expose miscreants within the community and thereby shame them (despite their not having 'rights' as we would perceive them today) TO modern day 'cancel culture' - again attempting to lower the tone of what his guest is saying - he does it every interview. If it isn't what Prince Charles says then it's not acceptable because Prince Charles owns all the land - that's pretty much Freddie's mentality.

After his summarizing of what she said, she replied that she needed to 'finesse' his analysis - a polite way of rebutting his club-footed and offensive Prince Charles style interpretations.

Freddie's job is to sound out the 'common people' to see what they are thinking, and to assess their threat to the landowners hegemony. No matter how much logos and reason his guests display he must always ultimately remind them that they don't own the land and they can be kicked off it any time the landowners choose.

Based on their almost complete silence over t’s erasing women, I’d say feminists aren’t even in support of women…

At the moment of my comment, Mary is on a press junket for her new book. Unfortunately it seems mostly "conservative" media that interviews her, which rather flattens the diligence, compassion and humor that clearly exemplifies her thinking. She often ends up shoehorned into the cartoon of "angry feminist, has baby, goes tradwife", where she clearly colors well outside those lines. In fact her most devastating blows, it seems to me, are directed at the (de)evolution of classical liberalism into the logic of the hyper techno marketplace, (sex and gender being but one of it's feedstocks), something free market libertarian conservatives cherish rather slavishly. This interview is excellent as it offers some genuine steel man counters that get to the nuance of her critique.

She has an unbearable speaking voice and way of speaking that I can’t suffer to listen to her despite the fact that she clearly has some interesting things to say. Why the hell does she sniff so much? I also quite like posh accents sometimes, but she over-pronounces her consonants and speaks too quickly.

She reminds me of the woman I fell in love with.

It is always interesting to see what happens when young people find out how life actually works.

Very important discussion. I haven't read the book (yet) and the author might have touched on this in the book but I see two missing points:
1- before the industrial revolution, women relied on grandmothers to watch the kids. This was no longer possible after women had to move away from their big families in order to catch up with their husbands.
2- The pill has a tremendous effect on women's biology, especially when taken for years in a row that it puts the body in a state of early monaupause. That's why when women get off the pill and want to get pregnant they require a whole course of hormonal therapy or very often IVF

50 -50 work if the feminists want it, must mean 50% of people building fences in outback Australia have to be women and 50% of people doing child care must be males. And both must be forced into whether they like it or not.

Welcome to the unmeritocracy. Grateful for Harrington’s voice.

Another example of how women don't mature until they hit the wall.

I love you, Mary Harrington, for giving a voice to all of us feminists who also recognize what women have lost, what women need, and what could make women's lives happier.

Brilliant how the discussion down here in the comment section adds so much to the great discussion in the video! Unherd viewers are the best!

Read "Domestic Tranquility", by Carolyn Graglia. It brilliantly explains how our culture has become crippled by so called feminists who believed that staying with your child made you a leech upon society. It is a fascinating, deep look into so many problems stemming from feminism. But, truly, nothing will fix society except a change of mind and heart, turning from belief in ourselves as omnipotent demi gods, to the belief in the triune God of the Bible who came to earth to save us from our sin and delusions. Unfortunately, too many churches have fallen for the idea of mothers working outside the home, and that women and men are interchangeable. Also, that divorce is an acceptable solution for a rocky marriage.

I just heard of her by accident. What a brilliant person. I am fascinated by people who change. Most of us are locked in our views. Refreshing

Quite a brilliant discussion, thank you!

Yeah definitely...high standards, go forvthe good stuff!

This woman is a singular voice making a powerful claim in a world gone mad.

Another loss during industrialization in regard to textiles is the loss of the creative outlet for women in having textiles as a means for creative expression.

It seems to me that Mary Harrington is writing this for a very privileged audience. None of what she says resonates with me or my rural, hard knocks upbringing. This is all fine and good if you are upper middled class with loads of options and privileges, but if her vision succeeds, it would curtail the safety and wellbeing of so many women, men and children. She keep posing this as a freedom vs caring model. For me it is an agency/safety vs domination model. 

I can only conclude that she poses the argument this way because she comes from a privileged background. The betterment of my lower-economic rural community came out of laws protecting women and children, the availability of divorce and abortion (which was primarily used by married couples in consideration their other other offspring's wellbeing), and positive changes in the workplace for women (and men). The examples she uses of modern women are not the women I know or grew up with... it isn't rampant sex and lack of consequences. In the lower economic world everything has consequences, and good laws support women in these important life choices.


The whole conversation gives me a big yuck... she said that her advice is just for some women, but the problem with that is that academic arguments filter down into laws that, in this case, harm average women who are just trying to make a better life for their children and families.

It would have been interesting if her own childhood and relationships during that time was explored more because it shaped her to an extent and caused her to be lost all of those years.

At around 49 minutes Mary and Freddie perfectly contrast the "feminism of care" with the "feminism of freedom". Freddie seems shocked that the "feminism of freedom" could be a bad deal for women. He argues, or plays devils advocate, that women can't/shouldn't withhold casual sex from uncommitted men. Mary is right that it is a powerful thing for women to withhold sex.

freedom isn't for the faint of heart. Just because you can't handle a certain lifestyle or were burnt by this or that as i assume this woman was, doesn't mean other women's freedom should be curtailed.

FEMINISM - Human biology must be transcended in order for women to be free. There needs to be a wholesale revolution against biology and human nature itself if women are ever to be free.

Bell Hooks - Biology is patriarchy and reality is sexism.

Judith Lorber - Neither sex nor gender are pure categories.

Judith Butler - Sex and gender are a social construct.

Simone de Beauvoir - One is not born but becomes a women.

Anne Fausto Sterling - Many things that have been thought of as sex are really gender as they exist at the intersection of body and culture. There are at least 5 different sexes.

Gerda Lerner - Male dominance over women is not "natural" or biological, but the product of an historical development.

Catharine MacKinnon - The belief that man and women are different is sexism.

Sure, I was a stupid left-winger when I was young but you shouldn't be. And around and around we go.

quite pathetic

Thank you one and all.

Oh thank you Mary. Thanks so much for 'allowing' men to have their own spaces!! I mean, whilst you're completely underplaying female power in history, the damage man hating women have had on society and at the same time telling us what we can and can't do. Incredible.

I feel like a lot of these British feminists are really traditionalists that cosplay as radicals when they're young.

Thank you so much! It gives hope we may create conditions for better lives for women and men, in the end. Thank you.

This is my 4th listen to Ms Harrington. I'm a male left of center. She is speaking by understanding, metamodernism. It parallels in ways a line of thinking I've always acknowledged it has been weird listening to folks talk about their sexuality in commoditzed terms. I never gained the ability.
Another way she speaks truth is to were power goes on unacknowledged. This analysis dovetails with what I've learned studying complexity science. Ways of seeing past hierarchies towards what are constraints and modulators of systems lay. This how nature works and has been freeing for my mind.

Women need to stop electing themselves "She whom speaks for all women." That is absolutely never the case! I get judged by people who have listened to these people, and it gets damn annoying. It keeps me from going about my day. Ladies, Just. Shut. Up.

Talk numbers and consequences. But, for the love of God, stop saying, "This is my experience so we all have this and we should all act this." Nope! Not even close.

Hysterical when aging feminists realize that by destroying men they've ruined their daughters future prospects.

The worst aren't the women who buy into the feminist narrative (they are just biased)... the worst are actually the Men who buy into it.

I like Mary but find her too conservative and knee jerk for me. Not sure why Mary thinks no pill = no sex before marriage. I’ve had long term relationships with no pill and just condoms. No mishaps. Sure, a little less sensation but all fine. No mishaps. No need for chastity. If I had married my first boyfriend…. 😂 Lordy, because that would be the reality “But muuuuuum I really looooove him! 😭” When actually you’re just a horny teenager.

“To the woman He said, “I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you.””

She just described, as ideal, the devout evangelical, catholic and mormon approach to living. Essentially a traditional Christian approach

Wait, she just argued against the pill on the basis of sex being consequnce free, by stating that sex is far better if there is a chance for conception. Ummmmm..... NOT IF THE GUY HAS NO INTEREST IN WANTING ANYMORE KIDS or ISN'T EVEN INTERESTED IN WANTING TO BE A FATHER

Less than 10 minutes in and Mary has already quoted or paraphrased Hemingway three times. At least she has good taste in literature.

I listen to the progress of this particular person through the various age categories, and I marvel. This is the same female progression that all the rebellious women in a free society go through. Temper tantrum resistance to authority, experimental lesbianism, or even real lesbianism, get married have a child. With the child comes the revelation that her previous 15 years of existence have been embarrassingly stupid, etc etc but the best part to is her expression of the industrial revolution being the primary reason or at least a primary reason why women lost power. I wonder if she's aware that she's skirting the communist argument against capitalism? I assume she is, yet she gives no credence to that fairly obvious point.

I didn't enjoy this interview. The interviewer kept interrupting and trying hard to control the discussion.

She believes in fairytale.

I listened her talsk .Sh eis so right about something that women were better off in the past .I have a summer house at the eagan seaside village.The women are village women are too freezer than working city women .They have close friendships with each other and they go out to visit each other late hours which in city working women do not do this .They have their own land ..And they used to produce anything int he past unfortunately farm life is disapearing.They would have never e hungry or they would have been never without fresh food..

during my time living inUSA, ı saw that how women were broken emotionally.Thye cannıt compete with men going out and having sex as much as to find a man but this şs what they are doşng and this did not do any good to them..

This guy is really wants women to use pill-;)))))

This message brought to you by the catholic church....

Blame contraception, but what it comes down to is cultural attitudes. The thing is, she had the choice to experiment with different relationships and jobs, had the choice to have ONE child with her husband, had the choice to pursue an education and career. She's enjoying feminist progress to the max and complaining about it at the same time.