Haas ST-30Y vs Doosan 220LSY | CNC Lathe RUNDOWN | Pierson Workholding

Going from haas to the doosan control is very tough but once you get used to it its not a big deal

Hass had to make it easy for the Russian defense manufacturing companies could run it

We use feature cam to program an st20y to interpolate using C. It involved the G128 I think, it's not amazing but it works. I've finished 3d surfaces using basically a steep shallow tool path with the spindle acting as C and a live tooling head with a ball nose endmill. I've got pics of some parts if u want DM me

Would be interested in another update. Which machine has been down for maintenance more at this point. Also I think the Haas works for you well building small parts but the Doosan is built for more rigidity and larger parts making it more reliable with less downtime in my opinion. We machine large 12” OD parts and our Haas machines don’t hold up as well as the Doosan does. We have 30 Haas machines and only 2 Doosan machines but convincing me to buy another Haas would be a touch sell I think unless you plan ahead to replace them every 5-6 years

Either you got a good Haas Lathe, we got one that's not so good, or Haas has come a long ways with their new machines, when it comes to holding size. When running a long running job on our 2006 SL-10, I have seen between 0.003" and 0.007" change from start up to "operating temperature." And it usually takes between 4 and 6 hours of constant running before it finally settles down. If we stop it for lunch, we have to start over again, to a certain point, after lunch. Also, you mention the auto touch probe auto adjusts sizes while running at night, lights out? I am curious how that works. Not how the arm itself works, but making sure the part is the right size. We touch off tools on our manual probe, and that will get you within 0.005" of the correct size on the part. But it's never perfect. I guess if you are dealing with +/-0.015" for tolerances, that would be OK. We deal with parts having 0.0005" total tolerance on some features. Major difference there. An order of magnitude difference, just from where we touched off the tool! Certainly not saying the SL-10 we have is a bad machine. It is just much different than what you are talking about in these two categories.

HAAS parts catcher is a very bad design..have used it on sl20 alot.. the lid in the door jams all the time, or u often get long chips stuck in that tray. Alot of times small parts just bounce on that tray, and u can never find them again.. or just get stuck at the opening in the door

Amazing intel, thanks. Right now i am stuck at work with coming up with an idea for automation for our lathe which runs small batches.

Hello.
Did you take a look at the SMEC sl2000asy before deciding what lathe you would buy?
I am looking for opinions about this lathe...

Thank you.

the pricing on Haas in the uk must be different to over the pond. No prices given by any machine supplier until they waffle you for over an hour of your life. I'm currently shortlisting a first new machine purchase and it would be easier if you had a guide price to work to first. Thanks for the reviews, very informative

But, how do you machine Salmon?

I have an SL10 and a Doosan 220B. There is no comparison between the two. The Doosan runs the same program in 60% of the time the Haas does just due to the rapid times and tool changes. The Service on the Haas was Abysmal. The Doosan gets a checkup every year and keeps on running. It's a 2006 and the Haas is a 2004. I also bought a 2011 and a 2012 VM2 Haas. Between the two of them I've replaced SEVEN ballscrews, Three spindles. Both mills got out of the factorn with the Z Ballscrew bearing block not pinned to the chassis. I've sold every Haas except my little 2000 Mini and it just won't quit. Bought Maklino's and am MUCH happier. THE most important thing when buying machines is service. And Selway service is Legendary in it's piss poor quality. They put my Cuvic coupler back together with only TWO balls in it and then wanted to charge me to fix their screwup. Never again
Then we can talk about their barfeeders,.,.,.Junk. Not accurate and slow. Pushrod bends. Won't feed...LNS is MUCH better

The Doosan should allow you to spec Siemens or Heidenhain controls and use Fanuc as a default ,so thats a Pro.

Once you give the Siemens a try you won't go back , its super efficient and can be programmed in 3 different methods.

Thermal stability: Ive seen upto 20um -30um from initial first component to say 10th depending on cutting loads.
Im convinced its not only m/c warmup but rather the general temp rise within the enclosure,turret ,tool holder,coolant temp and bar to be machined tha have an effect.

When you go and buy a machine for your shop, do you buy new? Do you buy used? What's your philosophy?

My parents are school bus contractors and when they go buy a bus, they do their best to buy new because they don't want to deal with someone elses problems from a used bus. They would rather work through their own problems with a new bus.

What kind of materials are you cutting on the lathes ?

What's a spindal? :P

I can whole heartedly agree and give credit to the Haas control for how intuitive it is, but most if not almost all Fanuc controls have rotary selector switches for rapids feeds speeds that are much more intuitive to use in my opinion

When I am finishing a setup and walking thru the program, being able to twist the rapid selector becomes mindless as opposed to the rapid buttons on the Haas control.

Subtle, and possibly nitpicky, but I feel others will agree on this that use a Fanuc control daily in their work.

Haas has overhead lights but they only come on when the door is open. It is nice for when setting up.

Great summary. We have a Haas ST-30SSY with barfeeder and run a lot of Y axis milling. I agree with the pro’s and the areas for improvement.

We bought a Nakamura-Tome AS-200MY as compliment to our Haas and have been very pleased with it.

All machines are tools. Sometimes craftsman is fine, other times you need snap-on. People that say you always need snap-on are crazy or union.

I tried to get a price for a doosan At my local dealer and left after an hour without an actual price, though he was all about getting my information to get the ball rolling on a loan for it.

2nd ops on parts made on a single spindle 2 axis lathe are using up tons of my time. We just can't afford a multi spindle machine at this point.

Looking in from the outside of never using a haas, it seems like haas is running their company the same way the American car manufacturers do by focusing on selling a car with lots of features the public wants, instead of a truly well built car with decent features. You know, feeding on that "disposable" immediate gratification mentality.

After owning three Okuma machines. I would never buy a haas.

Used a lot of LNS bar feeders. I think I had to manually feed each one of them. Terrible terrible devices that aren't worth their value in scrap metal. I've heard horror stories about HAAS feeders too though. Either not working outright or just being shotty. Only bar feeder I trust these days are the ones on swiss citizens.

Have both machines too.
But cycletime at Doosan 328 sec and at Haas 379 sec with quite less Quality!!
Thinking Haas is good enough for Americans but the rest of the world would prefer....
NOT THE HAAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The productivity is like their F1-Team , below the average.
Changing my Hass to another Doosan Lynx at 31th of July and im HAPPY with that . Greets from Germany

Doorsan +10

Get a doosan mill next, you'll love it, got a DNM, its SO much better than my VF4ss

I recently learned that there is a new Lynx model 2600sy being released this year, likely positioned to sell against the St-20/25. The 2600 has BMT-55 and 3" bar capacity and similar work envelope to ST-20/25.

Great video Jay. One thing that I wish you had mentioned was the price of each machine. If they were identically priced, it would be a truly fair comparison but a few thousand dollars in difference can be a major deal breaker for potential buyers.

I think this topic could be visited in the future since long term reliability is also an important factor.

@Pierson Workholding Would you consider relaying the machine red, amber, green traffic lights onto a board in your office? Nay, even network them somehow?
Think how many slight neck movements you could save!

Jay if you think that turret bearing is annoying wait till your haas is a week out of warranty and that Air cylinder that locks the turret starts leaking air and pushes all the oil out of the turret, haas was nice enough to charge me to fix it, with their simple design flaw, the gearbox doesn't have a breather in it. Oh yeah I said a week out of warranty. They have no problem saying it's out of warranty and not our problem.

If you wanted the ability to interpolate with the secondary spindle then why not buy a DS-30?

Our current gen ST20Y has been flawless for the last year. Have two more on the way. The sub interpolation has proven to not be an issue for our smaller parts since we can just XY mill anything we need. The lighting inside could be better. I’ll look into moving the light. Parts catcher is also a little weak. We added a small blocker wall of sheet metal on and it helped.

🤖🤖

Great review, thanks!

I own a basic 2 axis Haas St10 and quite recently bought a lynx 2100 lsyb. I agree with most of what you said, except:

- Part catcher on the doosan. It is terrible for small light parts, misses a lot of them or parts stay stuck before reaching the conveyor. Also a big risk of crash having it fixed on the sub spindle if a part doesn't exit correctly and the sub starts moving.
The Haas part catcher is dead simple. Not perfect at all but very reliable.

- Thermal stability. Our doosan moves up to 0.003" during 60-90 minutes before getting stable. Might be an isolated issue with our machine though, the dealer is looking into it.

Still, would go doosan again without hesitation, just for the noise...

Great vid. Just had a doosan dnm5700l installed a week ago. Going from the fadal 88hs control to the fanuc oimf+ control was a mind blow for the first few hours of training just like you mentioned. All ok now for basic machine operation but more advanced feature or uncommon menus are extremely well hidden. I use the ezi guide software you made mention of. It is easier for sure in my opinion.
Cheers

Some great points in the review. I own a HAAS SL-20 and a Mori NL2500SY as well as a Robodrill. Fanuc control is a pain to train on but so reliable, the Doosan is an exact copy of a Mori NL (one of the most popular lathes ever sold). I would never buy a live tool sub spindle lathe without full C axis on sub and I’m surprised haas would release one with only orientation. Orientation on my haas mill is pointless because it has a rubber coupling between spindle and motor so is not accurate (not sure how solid it is on Haas lathe sub) Love the Haas control. Hopefully Fanuc will sort the user friendly side of their control out as it really is a joke to a new user compared to Haas. (Cncmedcom pty Ltd)

Haas has the DS-30Y which is a true dual spindle lathe not sure if the interpolation issues are addressed with the DS-30Y or not though.

Been using My Haas SL 30's since 1999 , and they run really good . Consistently hold .001 after warm up. The new ST's are supposedly even better, so I am not surprised. Just gotta Bar feed for my 2005 SL-30 so I am glad to hear they work good. Thank You for the insight Jay

Coming from the Haas lathe control and now having the Doosan ez guide mode(or whatever it's called), there was basically no learning curve. I would say they are both equally easy to use. Now the standard fanuc side, I still have no idea how to use it. The Puma does come standard with the auto tool setter arm. I wish the Lynx did as well for in process tool checks but I don't think it's even an option. As for holding size, the CL-1 held tenths regardless if it was hot or cold and the Lynx seems to move about .001" as it warms up but then it holds size all day once its up to temp. I'm assuming that's because it's a much larger casting and thermal expansion is more noticeable which I'm sure the larger haas lathe experience the same thing.

It would be interesting to know what coolant maintenance is like between the machines. The Haas DS30Y that we have allows the coolant tank to be slid out and quickly cleaned. What's the Doosan like? With one exception, a Nakamura WT100, all of our lathes have been Haas. We just sold the oldest one last year and it showed 1.95 MILLION tool changes on the diagnostics page. It has run reliably except for a tailstock encoder for 20 years and held tolerances of .0005" throughout its life.

One of the best things I've heard in a long time "Dont attach emotions to failure. Attach solutions to failure". I enjoy your videos. As a non-machinist I learn a lot with each one.

How much thermal differences are you getting at Doosan?

Thanks for the video.
Really love the way you make your videos. 👍

Next time buy doosan with simens control ,the best control ever

Used to sell machines for a company here in Southern California, and I’ll speak for myself, but I never looked at the quality of the shop and thought about the price they could afford to pay. I always just tried to get them the best deal possible because there was so much competition on simply getting the machine sold. Maybe Haas shows the prices like that because they don’t feel like they have as much competition.

Thanks, Jay

Some interesting pros and cons. I'm considering switching from HAAS to the exact Doosan you have. We've had huge reliability issues with our HAAS lathe and when the engineers are saying the lathes should be avoided at the moment that's saying something. Also explored Hurco but not hearing some greats things from a few customers with 2018/2019 lathes. Feels like a minefield for buying lathes right now. On the plus side the mills I hear from HAAS are rock solid