Normalizing Evil : The Service of the Clone Troopers

This is one of the best SW related channels. Allen, you made me tear up, again. I just cannot fathom the tragedy of those brave MEN.

Philosophy of ethics exists because not everyone agrees on what is right and wrong. Not everyone has the exact same ‘compass’ as you, and not every situation is simple to judge

Good video very important message thank you for sharing this

Wouldn't it be a conflict of interest to have a, presumably general or high ranking clone as a senator? And the clones don't have a homeworld or sovreign land. and know nothing about the Republic in the first place. It's probably better they aren't in the senate.

You're looked good my dude.

Good points about the Clones. The difference between a Clone and a Human is HOW they are born.

For things like this I was more a CIS guy.
They at least used droids, machines to fight its war against the republic, saving millions of its citizens from the battlefield (exceptions being some organic officers or local militias) and maybe creating millions of jobs for organic workers and technicians who had to. An army that in the end could be just shut down and stored for the next great war when they were needed again. The Republic used an army of slaves that they got from nowhere to fight a war they started. In this I would blame the Jedi too, they knew the clones were basically slaves deep inside, they didn´t have other purpouse than war and any clone that was defective or diserted was killed instantly, and they ignored that just for the republic interests. They followed more politics than their own believes.

slava ukraini

The problem with western style democracies (and I use that word lightly) is that they are not true democracies, they are republics. In a true democracy everyone gets to make the decisions, but this isn't practicle in large groups, such as a country. So we choose the people who will lead us, and live in a republic, which is where a lot of the problems kick in. In a republic we elect our leaders, usually by popular vote.

Leadership is about making difficult, often unpopular, decisions that will be for the benefit of the greatest number of people in the nation or group. Politics is all about getting elected and then holding on to that power once you have it. In order to be elected you have to be popular, which runs contrary to the basics of leadership. In other words we choose our leaders by have a popularity contest.

There's an old joke I remember...
What's the difference between a leader and a politician?
A leader tells you what they want, how they intend to get it, and give you the choice. Get on board, get out of the way, or get trampled underfoot.
A politician looks around, sees where everyone is going, runs to the head of the pack and yells really loudly "We're all going this way. Follow me!"

I have actually heard politicians state that in an average 4 to 5 year cycle in office, that they can only truly lead (ie make the tough choices that need to be made) in the first 12 to 18 months in office (dependant on their majority), and if they, or their party, want to be re-elected, then what they can do is greatly limited by the popularity factor of any decision, no matter how necessary, that they make. After that period, everything that they do is geared towards getting re-elected, meaning that they can't make unpopular choices.

You’re a fu*kin patriot Alan

I imagine ChuChi probably did speak up earlier, or tried, but she was young and inexperienced and it took her until the empire to get any traction.

I dont understand why dump the clones? it seems to be more of a bean counter - budget reasons. otherwise they seem perfect, especially for a dictatorship, clones that are programmed to be loyal only to the dictator.

I had a weird thought when the droids were mentioned about it being just programmed and it was strange that they were programmed for fear. Could it just be propaganda that they are not thinking? Like when we saw the clones in the movies they seemed robotic they were soldiers and arguably some of the droids were more human-like than the clones, but we say because they are robots it is just programming, and just like the republic the CIS wouldn't want people thinking they were sending (for lack of a better word) sentients into battle. We don't really see the same depth in terms of time spent with doids and especially with just droids but in the time we do they have weird conversations and actions think differently from each other bicker and downright don't know the same things. It turns into an issue that is getting more and more in the spotlight now but the idea of trying to figure out where to draw the line between good programming and sentient machines has been talked about since before the prequels.

Bro what you think is right literally came out of a consensus! There is no natural right or wrong. In nature, if you can, you may. That is all.

It's pretty easy to sit an ivory tower and cast judgement on a people. The Republic was suddenly faced with a war for which they were not prepared. They had no army nor anyone who could train them to build and army. Then suddenly they did. The clones were the only thing holding the line until planetary defense forces and militias could be called up in number to fight themselves. The clones represented the best trained and best supplied fighting force, bought and paid for, in the entire Republic. Why would the citizens not look at them as such? The only thing the citizens cared about was that the war was kept from their planets or that there was a force that could fight back. They wouldn't care if this tool was made up of droids or clones as long as it did what it was told. They didn't have to sacrifice their own to do it. Slavery in the Galactic Republic was limited but still legal. It's not hard to change viewing it in disdain to looking at it as a godsend. Especially as we've never had to worry about this. Views might be drastically different if we suddenly were at war and under threat of invasion with no military. For Ukraine, I'm willing to be they would have little issue sending clones to their deaths as fodder considering how they're conscripting every single fighting aged male in their country.

As far as philosophy goes, that's definitely an arrogant take. Right and wrong are not something we naturally learn. Our current right and wrong structure is based off of Judeo-Christianity. Other moralities that were not based on it are very different. Murder was not clear cut under various pagan gods. Killing a child was looked down upon only if the family wasn't properly reimbursed. People were often treated as chattel with limited rights. SLAVERY was nothing special. It had existed across the globe in one shape or another for thousands of years. Rape, pedophilia, homosexuality, assault, theft, all were viewed differently, had different punishments, and could be absolved through different means. Much differently than today.

As far as 18yr olds fighting, it's b/c they all volunteered. Why isn't Putin and many pundits leading the armies? Many of them already served as soldiers when they were younger. And while some did not, it still does not change the fact that all of the people volunteered for military service. They're adults and have to take responsibility for their actions and choices. Nobody complains when they're at peace, in garrison, and living off of the taxpayer dime not doing much.

Theres endless star wars channels online but none quite like allen. Your way of thinking about it is so far beyond others its refreshing to see the way you see starwars content. Nobody will ever replace you Allen your the shiznit dawg

Another thing is it normally for jedi to take kids, so when the government says hay, we made clone soldiers, and people will think, so jedi thing when ever they bring up the clone

I am surprised no planets offered to adopt the clones. I am sure some planets need to replenish their depleted planetary force ranks.

When the Senate voted to commission the second batch of clones, they signed their own moral death sentence. They had no choice but to send the first batch to the frontlines, but by the time the second batch was ordered they could have commissioned and trained a volunteer army instead. However, the senators were too cowardly for that, probably thinking more about their reelection than the moral implications of creating more slave soldiers, and for this level of corruption the Republic deserved to fall.

Why don't presidents fight the wars,
Why do they always send the poor... (Or in this case, the Clones)

100% correct .

Such droid slander!!

As a young kid, the Clone Wars was a cool show about tanks, soldiers, and lightsaber-wielding Jedi.

As an adult (and conscripted soldier) god damn the series takes more turns than a Initial D road, and darker than midnight.

I said it once and I’ll say it again, I love how you tie the messages of Star Wars to the real world

Clones, "No taxation without representation!"

Against my better judgment. Cause I really like tech I do hope they keep him dead. It would make his sacrifice more impact full rather than just coming back through plot armor

There are a lot of parallels in real life for what happened to the clones. What about the hippies who spit on drafted soldiers returning from Vietnam and called them all baby killers? I've found that you can find very good examples of black-and-white thinking on both sides of the political aisle. Each side, especially the left I'm sorry to say, has a certain level of arrogance that leads them to believe they're above ideological traps and groupthink, but the truth is that they're just as lost as the right. Meanwhile, the powers that be continue to make millions off proxy wars and insider trading, and things like freedom of speech and science are based on ideological belief more than fact.

I heard a comment on someone’s mando season 3 stream that said “Star wars isn’t about politics” and both hosts agreed, I rolled my eyes so hard.

I think generation tech and this video sums up how Star wars is political quite well.

I still can't believe your channel exists. Among all Star Wars analysis channels you stand above and beyong in terms of thematic insight and political and philosophical relevance. Most reference calling and member berry chewing channels create just as much as or more content than you with a fraction of the intelligence and with triple the red circles. Please, keep doing this your way and thank you!!

Good soldiers obey orders, but may protest the order on the record, but nevertheless obey the order and carry it out.

I remember being in a hotel room watching the First Episode of the Clone Wars when it first came out and being a 8 year old and seeing the Clones and Yoda. I remember watching them and getting excited. "He's sooo awesome."
Was what i though and I still think the clones are so fucking amazing.

People who do not know right from wrong, where have you been in Star Wars? We call the Jedi.

People who don't know right from wrong are called politicians

Wait how were clones allowed into bars if they had the mentality of 9 year olds-

Allen, I love your philosophical takes on the show. It is one of the many things that sets you apart from the myriad of other channels that cover Star Wars content

A lot of the comments about the droids programming and clone minds are woefully inaccurate

as an anarco capitalist i love starwars

There are no free socities, our votes don't matter, not in the UK, the US, Europe it's all a smoke screen

Great video!!

Absolutely awesome episode of generation tech. 👍🏻

Excellent video commentary!!

useing clone soldiers are an abomination against humanity

I'm currently working on a book that (in contrast to my first book) focuses on the villain. Neither side is good, there is a war that is based on misunderstandings, a language barrier, and ego. One of the main characters is an important official in this war, his focus is to the security of his territory and the vassals appointed under him. Anytime he speaks about public safety, its more about keeping local sentiment with his faction, then ensuring the welfare of his constituents. Their government fuses religion into its social structure with he and a few other officials regarded as gods, allowing them to commit egregious acts and claim it to be devine will.

The initial reason I started writing this book (which is now in editing and soon to go into publishing) is because the first book saw the hero's of the book winning and stability (for the most part) returning to normal. To add to this would have seemed redundant, however, as I maul over the mindset of my characters and their situations, its interesting to see how the concept of 'evil' can become subjective. Everything happens for a reason, even when this main character bluntly kills a fellow politician for speaking out against him.

It's almost therapeutic to create a fictional society that is (on it's surface) well mannered and prosperous, then to slowly realize (without peeling layers) that it's only goal is consumption, growth and absolute authoritarian order. The best part is, this main character (according to my reviewers) is actually pretty likeable as a person, and full of passion for his cause.

This is why I keep saying that the BB should not be using stun rounds against the Empire and should be using lethal force along with aiding the Rebellion not going on their pointless filler adventures. This is why I was so happy seeing Echo leave to help Rex cause that actually made sense and was a legit good reason to make a difference.

I think the best way I've seen the way the vast majority of the galaxy sees the clones comes from one of the Republic Commando novels. One of the blurbs is from a junior politician saying the Clones are "lucky" because they don't have thoughts and only follow orders. Elsewhere, or it may be the same blurb, Clones are described as "organic droids".
I remember when TCW first came out. I was 17 and was excited for it. But then I saw that it was more focused on the Jedi and less so on the clones and found myself really disappointed. It wasn't until years later that I finally watched the show. I'm still disappointed that the focus was on the Jedi rather than the clones, but I can enjoy it.
I do think we need to have a real discussion about whether all droids are non-sentient.

humans are dumb