The Space Exploration Retrospective

Thanks for the feedback and the caveat that it’s in alpha/experimental. People usually assume that the mod is near finished, but really large sections of the mod are in a placeholder state waiting for that section to be overhauled. Fortunately most of the things you dislike are placeholder content. I’ll try to summarise some of the current roadmap.
Most of the real “exploration” content will be added quite late (0.8 or later), because it needs to fit around the activities and capabilities of the player at various points in the game and I want those to be better defined first. Exploration is also content-heavy over systems-heavy, so it is something I can get contributors to help with but the other systems need to be more solid first. For example the ruins, things keep breaking when the mod changes so I really want to have the other systems stable before adding more exploration content. Exploration is also mixed in with some things that will happen with a robot faction. The mod already has a lot of PvP features (like meteor defence shooting enemy delivery cannon projectiles, umbrella vs energy beaming, etc) and the robot faction is intended to give you a way to fight with (or make peace with) an enemy with similar inter-surface capabilities and weapons.
In 0.6 the biggest limitation is the temporary planets system. Currently all planets are one planet type that has a random climate and random resources, there’s nothing really “designed” about their experience beyond processing 1 resource. Version 0.7 has a lot of different planet types and each one will have more intentional gameplay. That’s not just environmental challenges and unique terrain, but also a decided set of available resources that can be used together for a local factory. Where 0.6 has 1 main resource with a linear process + some random (often useless) secondary resources; 0.7 will have a primary resource and some guaranteed secondary ones that are not just used for processing the main resource but also to make local science. (And yes, that literally does include lakes of sulfuric acid for specific planets). Some planet types will have a dedicated building (sometimes replacing a space building) which can only be built there, like a magmaworks, vitamelange arboretum, or an oceanic tower, which will also be needed for the associated science. 0.7 doesn’t have any science tiers (1-4), every science pack is named (asteroid, stellar, radiation, genetic, neural, etc), and half of them require a small base somewhere specific such as an asteroid belt or planet type. This means that roughly 40% of the current space science packs are moving to the ground so when you go to an iridium planet it’s not just a mining base, you’re also doing one of the material science packs there. This general tech structure is already in place, but the exact recipes are still in flux and something I will be trying to get more community feedback on later. There are also things like more toys from bio sciences, jump clones, reasons to go to other star systems, less grind, etc. but that’s a list too long…

Interesting to see what Factorio 2.0 will have in common with this mod.

How do you feel that they announced that a simpler version will be implemented as an expansion for vanilla?

This might have been handled in later versions but I used the byproduct stone/sand easy by just putting landing pads by my stone, sand, and glass inputs with a priority splitter. I have one normal landing pad for what I mine and a "dump" landing pad for byproducts. I also do this for steel from barrels. Never needed to make landfill because of too much of something.

Mixed with Krastorio, some of their resources end up on other planets.

do you like to fart?

"Localized entirely within [...]"

... your kitchen?

Oh yea, this is the video where you talk about your opinion on the mod. Disregard the comment on the other video then :D

My biggest problem with the mod is the changing recipes. I apply alone and the version I play is combination of SE and Krastorio 2. Having over 1000 hours in it really sucks when a portion of a base stops working because (e.g. testing kit) recipe changes. With a base my size I usually notice within several hours of my base doing nothing. Also adding robot attrition dn making most space builds rely on robots is just annoying, in late I can create literally millions of drones only issue being constantly having to ship them to space. the attrition does not add anything, the most rudimentary circuits cannot solve, unless the interplanetary radio doesn't break for no reason at all and needs to be "reset."

@DoshDoshington Oh look the Factorio makers actually want to make the next expansion like this space mod(In space at least like their steam post shows), good times ahead!

I'm playing Krastorio space exploration ... 100 hours in I think I made a huge mistake LOL 😂 but I'm fully invested now so yeah ... Yikes.

your criticism stems from your desire to make each planetary base a self-sufficient source of a single resource with its own closed infrastructure. but.. why? why is that a desirable thing? I actually like the challenge of creating a supply network that makes creating extraterrestrial mining outposts easy. instead of making independent outposts, I find creating absolutely minimal outposts interesting. like, creating an entire outpost in a 50x50 block.

is it easier to process resources on nauvis? yes. is that bad? well, no, it's just the rules of the challenge.

DOSH DOSHINGTON JUST DROPPED A NEW VIDEO WAKE UP PEOPLE

One of the things I greatly disagree with is the difficulty of transporting energy between surfaces.
If I want to make a multi-terawatt power beaming system in low orbit of the home star, and use that to power the rest of the base, I should be able to do that without my PC screaming at me for mercy.
But right now thanks to the fact that the energy beam receiver outputs HEAT energy not DIRECTLY ELECTRIC POWER, I get a bunch of lag because of all the tiny heat pipe networks.
The ability to use them as giant space-born lasers to kill biters is GREAT, that shouldn't change one bit.

But on the receiving end, I think it should directly produce electricity, rather than producing heat.
This would reduce lag, I hope, because you would be able to treat the energy beam receiver as a special type of electric energy interface, rather than as a special type of nuclear reactor.
The need to make use of water for power beaming is fine, maybe the new building can require it for cooling or something, but steam should not be the primary method of outputting power from the energy receiver (fluid boxes and heat pipe networks are THE primary sources of lag in any large Factorio base, vanilla or modded, due to how the game is coded).

Instead, the energy beam receiver should be a VERY LARGE monolithic building (the biggest one that SE adds to the game), and it should be able to be walked and driven over.
And by big, I mean BIG. The same size as the electric supply range of a Pylon Substation (64x64 tiles).
It should require a lot of the T1 flat solar panels to produce the building.
It should require water for cooling, and output 500C steam as a BYPRODUCT (500c steam produced in proportion to the amount of energy that the building is supplying to the grid, which would act nicely as a restriction in the maximum throughput of an energy receiver).
Now that I think of it, having two different methods that the energy beam receiver building outputs energy adds another challenge to the power beaming problem, which I think makes the experience better overall. The challenge is that you must prevent the steam from becoming backed up or the energy beam receiver overheats and tells the energy beam sender to turn off.
This gives another reason to use either condenser turbines (if on a waterless world), standard steam turbines, or (if you're really clever) you might use the steam to help produce some resource locally that needs steam as part of its crafting recipe.
But you would also need a backup method to get rid of steam that is produced in excess of demand (and the proportion of steam production to directly beamed energy should be set so that this is always needed), and the chemical plant / biochemical facility recipe to condense steam is already there to do just that, so that "challenge" already doesn't need anything "new" added to solve it handily.

Also, I tried to build a mega-base in this mod pack. It's impossible. You can't cram enough thermofluid thru one pipe to handle the entire need of even just astronomical science when you're using even just 10 buildings of each observatory and the like.
Fluid challenges like thermofluid are challenging yes, but they are not scalable.
I don't like tiling entire builds, I want "one big build" not "50 smaller builds that add up to the same throughput".
I'm someone that likes to build megabases. And so I use the High Pressure Pipes mod. But SE makes it so I can't build those in space, the ONE place where I'd really like to use them. If Space Pipes acted like the pipe, underground pipe, and pump added by the "high pressure pipes" mod, I'd love using them, and I wouldn't be cursing their name every time I need them. I like the idea of having so many different lengths of space pipe. In fact, I wish that those different lengths and junction configurations of pipes were also replicated in "normal" non-space pipes as well, ready for other mods (like high pressure pipes) to hook on to them and add better variants that can handle more throughput (in space, on the ground, or both).
The limitation in length of underground pipes for space pipes is questionable at best IMO, I get that you want us to think about plumbing differently but having to learn and un-learn how to do plumbing every time I switch from the surface of a planet or moon to a location in space is needless artificial difficulty IMO (it feels like every time I make a plumbing mistake due to this, the game is mocking me saying "haha, your muscle memory lied to you again, nerd[derogatory]").

Aside from those two gripes, I love what's going on with Space Exploration so far.

Are you delusional? It’s ever so easy to brush off but critique with purpose is about the most helpful thing and the most positive force out there
Genuinely is needed and all make good points and the other mods like space trains being implemented as a core feature would be great

Also would love to see an update playthrough later on, this was a super super enjoyable couple hours to listen though and if the mod itself was a little more chaotic I even think best moments of active commentary could be a fun idea (Stoic industrialist surrounded by screaming children as rockets crash, biters swarm and everything burns - their own little adventures and screams as advancement is conducted - or just cutting in every few minutes of edited video about their latest calamity)

I like your outro

Out of all the overhaul mods, I'd say it's probably the best even in its current state. That sense of tediousness comes in toward the later part of the game but a lot of games in general have this issue, when you have all your abilities, or the tools you require, and you're strong, or you've experienced all there is and all that's left is upscaling. Personally I think because of how quickly you go from rockets to space elevator to spaceships they'd benefit greatly from some way to "specialize" into one and get them a bit earlier, so that dedicating your whole base to one thing doesn't feel pointless because "I'll just replace it with x" anyway. I personally built megabases in vanilla, so you can probably imagine a game like SE appeals to my sense of "Well I don't need to do this, but I'm gonna do it anyway". Even when you mention a lot of time kind of afking in space is something that exists in vanilla, where you have no ability to research, then you build some things and you learn all of it in 30 minutes

As a person who enjoys a bit of rewarding masochism, I can say I didn't enjoy space exploration. And i think frankly they should have made cargo rockets and satellite rockets cheaper if they included them or bypass them entirely ... I built so big cause I thought I needed to for the rockets only to learn that I still didn't build be enough, and I kinda rage quit after I technically made it to some degree of space

wait he said 'now vis'?

this mod was fun to watch and i commend you and anyone who has had the insane will power to actually finish it, 300 hours to finish a mod is insane

So after playing this mod for many hours now I gotta say, locking t3 belts and locking logistics so far deep into the mod makes it rather boring. Not being able to setup good automation with bots till you are basically already at the most boring phase of the mod makes for bad progression. The mod in that respect was better in an earlier version, 0.5 is better then 0.6.

Also yes, space ships almost may not exist and cargo rockets being such a massive requirement is a bit much, you should be able to shoot all materials in the game with the big cannons and the setup of it should be start with ship that you need to repair, use said ship to explore, find new land and setup a base using a unique way to power it based on your location, say lava planets need you to stay there and research using materials only found there and no other material requirements from other planets. Where you can research lava gens that only work there as your main source of power with all other sources nerfed on that planet.

Ya know, make it actually about space exploration and not just needing a billion resources to unlock the next thing as the mods really tedious with side products.

i don't play factorio but i had a idea for solving the identy /complexity problem of crafting chain and planet

in real life most thing such as chloride ore carbon , are not stocked nor processes in pure/abondant form , but in easy to manage adapatble one .

here go the mechanic :
-you have "tier 0" material pure simple easy , then Tier 1 those are ressource that are but one change away from being tier 0 , and tier 2 who are complex material that can be treated a multiple of way (mainly merged with Tier 1 or other tier 2 like arcospshere to change both) .
-everything else exist in a limbo state of either being a manufactured item or a one of the tier material .
-the more you advance into weird planet the more exotic the material become , what may have been a efficient build path on some planet need to change on a other , with the same ressource and goal but diferent procecees creating differnet "waste"
- that create a mini game of choice :do you want the more adapted solution but less efficient , or the heavily optimised interplanet one that in the end cost more .
-it also introduce the concept behind arcosphere (of swapable recipe) earlier which i think is cool .
-for it to work most tier 1 should be a interchangable , only when more specefic recipe and condition arrise you need to adapt and fully use it.

also the dev speak about a enemy faction , maybe if you send too much cargo you make "space pollution" or noise and that attract the great filter to kill you , making interplanery cosntruc risky but insanly rewarding if pull off effectivly negating all waste

Listening to all these points makes me reflect on their existence in Dyson Sphere Program, where the simplicity is kinda a positive.

Entertaining and interesting. Thanks.

I do like the ideal that different planet have something odd to them. Like a planet where item move farther on their own so if a belt turn then the item will float off it. Or a planet where the land masses will shift around.

The emperor protects! Burn the heretic!

Oh i'm verry love those video :3 How about beat factorio with krastorio 2 and space exploration on next 🧐

Thank you for actually finishing the mod, you are one of the few YT who have done that. I wouldn't know how it ended otherwise.

Watching this mirrors my experience with the various Minecraft industrial mods.
I find there's this tension in the design of these logistics/crafting games:
How do you make it more difficult without also making it more tedious? And I don't think anyone has really found a good answer to that yet, especially considering how incredibly variable people consider difficulty and tedium to be.
A second issue is that these games are essentially very open-ended puzzle games. And where they tend to fall flat, is they make a 'puzzle' that is interesting to solve *once*, when these kinds of games need you to solve their core 'puzzles' over and over again. But again I don't really have an answer to that. Puzzles that are interesting to solve multiple times are absurdly difficult to design. I feel like this issue is where these mods suffer the most, it's a mistake I see happen over and over again.
Many of them try to answer difficulty and inject new puzzles by requiring you to 'scale up', but this has it's own set of limitations by stressing the engine and computer. Anything that requires a player to actively consider tickrate as part of standard gameplay is on really thin ice in my opinion, and mods like space exploration and krastorio really flirt with this boundary.
Still tho, I don't really have answers to this.

The idea of making space the hub and a place where planetary bases converge gives me Starbound vibes and i love it.

One interesting thing about the idea of scavenging for tech, is that it already exists in vanilla factorio. In the tutorials, there are ruins far away from the base, that have otherwise unobtainable electric furnaces and modules.

Agreed on 0.5 to 0.6 crafting recipes. One thing that really annoyed me was production and utility science, suddenly costing things I couldn't produce and shoving rocket science into the game. Locking logistics behind space garbage and completely ruining my blueprints has made me refuse to play 0.6 ever again. I like 0.5 just fine, and all I can observe in 0.6 is recipe changes, which don't feel needed.

awsome retrospective, i totally agree, i mentally checked out and quit when i got the the second tier of space tech, it really should not be soo convoluted,

That idea about having the initial crashed ship being one you can repair and fly to other planets sounds amazing. Having a goal staring in your face the whole time, begging you to repair it, would be a big motivator to get through the early game.

You might find Space Exploration + Krastorio 2 more interesting. They're designed to work together and imo are the better way to enjoy space exploration.

Just finished the series and it was really good. Would you ever think about doing a Pyanodons playthrough?

I have some questions for all, do you guys notice his nauvis base? It's like a megabase/city block and i'd like to know how you make one, im a pretty big noob at factorio only having made main busses so far

nobody gonna talk about how there are p**is all over the map?

Pls do IR3!!!’

I've beaten SE twice now (I was tricked into it the second time as a group multiplayer playthrough and then promptly abandoned, plus I can't stop once started) and both of my runs went totally different from yours in a ton of ways, but we mostly agree at the end. I do think a lot of the torture that SE inflicts could be ameliorated by more beneficial content to research at each tier of each science. Frequently a new tier would unlock nothing useful/interesting, which is just a disappointment. But, the space elevator was introduced between my two playthroughs so I'm very hopeful that even more positive content will be implemented with future updates.

Also send help because something is clearly wrong with me.

Will admit starting in space scavanging between asteroids for metals to repair your ship sounds like an ammazing start, hope you keep making videos

This play through made me extremely interested in a Anno 1800 play through from Dosh. I know it goes kinda into a different genre but the logistics challenges in a full free-build session of that game of island to island shipping in early game, continent to continent shipping in mid game and obscene productivity optimisations with "waste" products in late game was what I was reminded of constantly while watching space exploration.

Thanks for the breakdown, enjoy your vids dude

I think one of the best ways for overhaul mods like this that want to add alot of post game content really need to look into good and satisfying ways to change the early game. imagine if k2 or SE were entirely vanila until you launched your first rocket. I think forcing players not to use blueprints the first time they do everything is incredibly important to being a popular mod

HOLY FRICKEN COW THIS IS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL BASE IVE EVER SEEN!! I’m almost to deep space science and 140 hours in on my space exploration save and my base is a garbage heap compared to this I legit cried while looking at it

I hate that this series ended.

thank you very much for the series ~ I am nowhere near smart enough to even complete vanilla Factorio, so it's a joy to see your videos :)