The BIG PROBLEM with Midwinter Minis...

With respect, I'm not sure if you actually watched my video? We basically set out some reasons why some people might not feel comfortable playing historical wargames, given their cultural context, and wondered if that might explain the popularity difference between sci-fi/fantasy and historicals. Then I asked what people thought.

Misquoting me in your thumbnail is low.

Historical wargames is not just WW2. Many people play in other periods, Ancients and Napoleonics especially. I found the Midwinter Minis video to be laughable.

Look if you play as waffen SS and acknowledge that in real life they were not the most morally upstanding folk, you're fucking miles ahead of the simpletons in the Canadian government, that think that if a Ukranian in WW2 fought the Russians he must be a great guy, and are blissfully ignorant of little things like him maybe being a member of a Waffen SS unit that had a particularly bad reputation, even among the Waffen SS.

Nothing wrong with playing as the Nazis in a historical wargame as long as you're a normal person and don't lionise or excuse the deeds of war criminals. (Same as the Soviets or IJA.)

Sooooooooo.... midwinter minis should be very angry when people plays the soviets right? After all they killed more people

Difficult. Sou ds like MWM has a link to the times discussed through family? They even note that they might be over thinking and they beg comme t on this? I wonder about use of the hooked cross on German models. What do you think?

Not sure I would use words like ignorant and stupid. I would ask MWM if the video had clickbait elements to it?

Thanks for your note on possible floors in debate. When we are perfect, others can be sure we are not

The guy dumped his wife and kids to run off with his new assistant because she is deep into bondage. He is a cheating low life.

Its so disingenuous tbh the video came off as "some people do bad things so now we have to make a whole video talking about it" like yes we know the "germans" where bad people you dont have to remind us but pointing the finger to going "naughty naughty" to IMAGINARY people he didnt even give evidence of people who play that game believing in "german" ideology its just silly

Hope nobody plays as the Japanese or Soviets either.
They're responsible for genocides, concentration camps, cannibalism, sexual assault, horrific torture & executions.

So strange I did see the Midwinter Minis video and this is the exact vibe I took away from it. My Great Grandfather was a Luftwaffe pilot who took part in the battle of Britain, so naturally I've always been the Germans growing up lmao.

I have played historical wargames for 50 yrs I have german, usa, british japanese,its a game only a game,it also teaches you history whether ww2 or naploenic
Not all germans were nazi's anyway

Came into the video with an “Oh boy, here we go” attitude, thinking it was gonna be click bait, but this was actually very sincere & logical, with some amazing points raised. I love MWM, but yeah, it’s pretty agreeable that this move was trashy

It might have been helpful to, instead of complaining about supposedly being called a Nazi (which Guy definitely DIDN'T do), you or anyone here in the comments rushing to save the honour of historical wargamers, would instead have made an attempt to explain WHY you yourself feel it's okay to play as the Germans. That would have actually been constructive.

Cringed really hard at the part where he claimed Hattie said "please don't make me paint the Nazis." If she did say it, it is totally stupid, and if she didn't actually say it, then that is even worse.

All the grandstanding seems like a big distraction from certain other topics that were being discussed at the time, around MWMs personal life. But surely it couldn't possibly all be a ruse.....?

I'm building my first ever army for a game and I chose the Japanese. Guess I love kamikaze!

Midwit Minis

I really dislike how people can make the “playing as the bad side” in historical games so seriously like if I choose the Germans because I want to use the Panzer then all of a sudden I’m a Nazi. They’re plastic miniatures on a table top just because someone plays as the Nazis does not mean they want to commit genocide. I mean considering that the allies indiscriminately bombed civilian cities killing tens of thousands of innocents I wouldn’t want to play as the Allies either. Yes it’s no where near as bad as what the Axis did my point is guilt tripping yourself by playing a board game is completely unnecessary.

Really there shouldn't be more over complicated thoughts to develop around Midwinter Minis and their take on historical Wargaming : they are a really good painting channel but they should remain on that topic and not lean over political stuffs, seeing how they do. They just discovered actual human history the day before and posted a video pointing out how they are shocked it is so full of evil stuffs, truly nothing more to sort out

Honestly the idea that playing as the Germans makes people feel bad or anything like that it probably the softest thing I have ever heard

I've been a fan (and patron) of yours for a while now, and I love your bolt action content, but I feel like you went a bit too hard. Midwinter makes a few good points (and a few missteps), it might be one of the reasons I prefer k47 to bolt action.

Yeah, honestly? I love midwinter minis, they are the main reason i got into painting miniatures (not wargames, here in my country the hobbie is not that big) but that day i saw the thumbnail and said "nah imma sit this one".
So far the only video I haven't seen from them. And hearing from ye it kinda reminds of how my mama said that cuz i played videogames, i wanted to hurt people and stuff.

"I play Splatoon and the general Turf War mode splits teams into Good Guys and Bad Guys; I'm always on the Good Guys team in my game, but in my opponent's game, I'm always on the Bad Guys team - I don't wanna be a Bad Guy! I wanna be a Good Guy! Why do I have to be a Bad Guy to them??"

That's the kind of energy I get when someone is so knee-jerk about potentially playing as an army like the Nazis in any historical game, it's not like you openly endorse the thing you're playing as, otherwise every COD or Battlefield player would be on global terrorist watch lists by that logic - you can play as an army like the Nazis purely out of fascination with their strategies, tanks and weapons without actually believing in the propaganda of the Nazi party, it's not that difficult to understand.

Hell, I'm building an Emperor's Children army to begin in the Horus Heresy, that doesn't mean I enjoy the idea of flaying the skin off of people and making a leather suit out of it all or have loud music blowing my ear drums to pieces all day everyday - I'm the exact opposite of the III Legion yet it's that complete difference that I find fascinating, nothing more than that!

It definitely wasn't as bad as the Extra Credits video on the subject, but it was still kinda awkward and didn't focus on the actual topic of building and painting a model tank (extra points for picking an American tank, the latecomers to the battle in WWII. lol)

i like your vid but man this feels like a major misread of MidwinterMinis video. i'd argue his video proposes some interesting points honestly. you can't really deny that there weirdos who play factions in historicals like nazi germany. is every one who choses to play those factions like that obviously no. there can be a multitude of reasons why someone would play real world bad guy factions like MM stated in the video. it didn't really seem like they were saying everyone who chose to play them are bad people just kinda talking about it and the elephant in the room with historical hobby games.
also it's not like some their points were necessarily just a wacky hypothetical... speaking from experience back when i first got into wargamming Konflict 47 had like recently came out and i was looking into getting into the game with a german army cause i liked the werewolf dudes and the funky spider tank thing. so i was talking around my FLGS about it and met a dude who played it & bolt action, and started talking to him about the game and the hobby side. he had two armies so he'd let me play with one to try the system before buying into the game and we ended up becoming somewhat friends. i unfortunately ended up finding out after hanging out with him and some of his close friends that they were alt-right chud dudes who were drawn to bolt action over other wargames specifically because they could play as nazi and that really soured konflict 47 for me especially since they were the only ones in my area that played it. so its not like the point MM made about those games attracting weirdos is invalid.

Can you even buy bolt a tion nazi models?? Not every German was a nazi.

The main reason I don't play historical games is because I'm just not into painting normal human models. Like they have to be some sort of fantasy knights, wizards or one of my own resin pritned space marine project before I think they're fun to paint and play with.

Solid 70% of the stuff I print and paint is some sort of a big monster or mechanical creature, sometimes mix of both, rest could be classified as space marines. The idea of having an entire army of humans and tanks simply does not interest me when I could use stuff like lizardmen in space instead.

Used to love midwinter, but vids seem awkward and i donno why just fallen off them in past year or so

My problem is that the start collecting games are done once every 6 months!

"There is some hobbying in you political bullshit" 😂

My god you sure did get your panties in a twist here.

Great video and excellent points!

Lmao all world eaters players are mass murderers in waiting, All Sons of Horus players want to conquer the world 🤦🏻‍♂️

MWM is a scandalous cheater lol. He left his wife for Hatty. Have you seen the clothes she wears in his videos when they’re alone in the studio, it’s like he is an Archon and she’s his sax slave. This guy literally introduced Skimpy Hatty to his channel and then days later posts he’s leaving his wife, gee I wonder why? I’ve seen the comments his wife made too on her channels shorts and on Reddit, she literally said that he was being a jerk about the whole situation and basically said without saying that he cheated with Hatty. Dude is ruthless and not in a good way.

I've thought about this from time to time, honestly, about how "right" it is to be playing games based around real life awful events. Not just board games, of course, but video games, movies, etc. Real people died. Real atrocities were committed. Yet here I am gleefully assembling a A6M2 Zero or Panzer 4 just because I think they look cool.

But then I recall one of my favorite old series I used to watch on TV Land. Hogan's Heroes. Where the Germans were played by Jewish actors and Lebeau was literally played by a concentration camp survivor. And it was a comedy. If THEY were okay with treating WW2 in the light-hearted farcical tone that they did I think it's probably alright for us to push toy soldiers around on a board.

Do some people take things in weird directions? Yeah. Some people out there outright collect Nazi memorabilia and not in any sort of historical or healthy manner. We still have neo Nazis. There have been a few who cropped up in Warhammer on rare occasion. So I can understand MWM's thought processes when considering this sort of stuff. I didn't take it as anything disingenuous. It's just another thing to think about.

This is just another case of “Ahhhhhh Nazi bad and merica is the beeeeest”. If you are sorta knowledgeable about WW2 then you know that it wasn’t just Nazi bad. Everyone had committed terrible things during that war however that was never mentioned in his video? Basically all I got out of watching that video was just “Nazi bad and if you play them you should feel bad because well you’re basically a Nazi.”

The mistress he left his wife and kids for really did a number on him. I was gonna try let it pass but it seems like she was the impetus for this folly. And he just jumped right in with it....

He then goes on to promote World of Warships a WILDLY popular battleship game with gasp Nazis in it ON THAT VIDEO.

Midwinter Minis definitely earned a unsub from me with that video. I despise takes like that, and with him trying to damage control after that horrid hot take, I don't care to take part in his content. There are plenty of other creators out there that Don't equate nazis to all germans.

I didn’t think there was any stigma playing historical war games — certainly was never mentioned in the war gaming spheres — until Midwinter minis did. That whole video came off (to me at least) as “hey, you should probably think twice about playing historical war games - because you can turn into a closet Nazi” and so NOW I feel I need to be cautious getting into historical war games … I mean — was there really a stigma? Or did Midwinter minis just create one out of thin air just then and there?

Guy... traded wife and babies for a bit of fluff to paint plastic with... then claims moral high- ground to cast dispersions on others (Historical wargaming - especially certain factions... hmmm ). 🤔

Aside from playing wargames / painting miniatures I also collect stamps (boomer/xennial). I even have Hitler and Third Reich stamps 😱 I have many CCCP / Russian stamps or from countries with questionable regimes and many British Commonwealth stuff that someone could deem as "questionable". I collect them because they are beautiful and/or historically interesting. I can't fathom why anyone should be guilt tripped for this and I find MWM's discourse in that video quite ill conceived. It reeks of cheeky clout gathering, stirring up drama just for ₤₤₤, doesn't even feel sincere. Used to be a HUGE fan of Guy when he initially started out with his Blackstone Fortress quickpaint series but I feel we don't need this kind of shit in our hobby. Once again returning to the underground grimdark Mordheim "scene" because too much shit social justice drama has invaded almost every subculture and it is extremely off-putting.

I feel Mardian Glory that you like this game allot, but it was evident to me that they were not calling all bolt action fans Nazis. to be honest there are fascists, racists, anti-Semite's, and even sexist gamers in all war games, although luckily in very low numbers. I guarantee you that very few racists actually play wargames, but as certain as I am that there are few I am also certain that there are some that play, and with bolt action it is easier for knuckle heads (Neo-Nazis) to play out their twisted fantasy. Is the game at fault? absolutely not, but is it worth talking about honestly? yes.. yes its worth having an honest conversation. it isn't constructive to be mad at guy for asking questions and speaking his own point of view on the historical context. to be perfectly transparent I don't play any WW2 games both because I'm ethnically Jewish, and secondly it feels weird when I have played anything along those lines. for myself its too personal but I understand why someone would like the German faction, the German Tanks are cool.

Great video! Where did you get that background footage of panzer production?

The German army weren't all nazis. This assumption says far more about MWM than it does about anyone else.

This is why gate keeping is so important.

An excellent and fair summery of the problem.

Maybe he should focus on not cheating on his wife instead

His video reminded me of being accused of facism by a teacher in school reading a fictio book about to teens fleeing norway to the uk to escape nazis cause the cover had a picture of an iron cross. Feels real good to be accused of something when the accuser has no fucking idea of anything.

WW2 Germans were bad for sure. But I would propose that the USA was just as bad for dropping 2 atomic bombs on civilians. History is written by the victors.

I feel that this is a very bad straw man video and you are putting words in the mouth of Guy and Hattie.

I don't feel that anywhere they said you should feel bad for playing historicals or for playing the Nazis, rather expressing the discomfort some have over how some people feel doing so.

Every reaction video to that video is conflating the point about "that person who we all know who is a bit too into the nazi iconography (and they exist especially with the rise of the right wing extremism both in the states and in western europe)" to mean, everyone who plays the Nazi forces is that person. I think this is also an extremely bad faith response.