Bolt Action: Cock On Open vs Cock On Close

The Carcano seems to have an unusually strong striker spring. With the turned down bolt handle of the carbine version it is a bear to open the bolt from the awkward position of staying in firing position with the butt in your shoulder when working the bolt. It’s why you see people dropping the Carcano to get better leverage when cycling the bolt then bringing it back up to fire.

So much cock, ing so little time.

When you read “minor handling marks” in the description. 😂

That BMS Cam rifle is really cool! We love a modern cock on close

As always, fascinating to understand, and your evenhanded approach to the pros and cons is as refreshing as a cool breeze on a hot day.

Hey bloke, I want to know your opinion on this there are these whistle fidget toys called goat guns that are completely harmless, but they have been deemed as dangerous firearms by the Australian government and they are now completely banned to you. What is your view on that?

What about, "cocks at the very end of the actions travel, and if you don't completely open it, it will eject the case, load a new cartridge, but then not fire, or even worse, slam fire when you squeeze the lever"?

Trying to keep the number of rifles down? Hmm. Still, this counts as Enfield nerdery so back to the proper purpose of this channel.

CoO is safer. The firing pin cannot protrude at any time the bolt is unlocked, but with CoC there is a possibility of an unlocked discharge with the bolt ran forward rapidly if the trigger sear doesn't catch the striker assembly properly (dirt, broken parts, bolt not fully cycled). With CoO, a failure of the sear to engage will just slowly drop the firing pin on the primer as the bolt is locked. It is this reason alone that caused Paul Mauser to design his "98" with CoO instead of the successful CoC system he had been using. Is there a practical difference in normal use? Not really, just work all bolts decisively and you won't have a problem with any of them.

Im weird, both "feel" fine to me. But I've spent time with all my milsurps amd gotten over the unfamiliarity bits.

There are indeed advatages and disadvantages to both, but having both in various forms is just a nice way to look at arms development of the past.

Funny that there is so much debate on action speed, when most shooters don't have the skill to cycle an action against their shoulder, with their eyes on the sights. Until you can do that, your opinion is moot.

Always fun stuff

Hmm?
One gets Slapped open!
One gets Slapped closed!
recoil

Have both, I just wish I could have more trigger time with either?

Me before watching this: "Well, I assume the correct answer is whatever the Lee-Enfield does."

The only bolt actions I've messed with are a Savage Model 10 and a U.S. Property Savage No4 Mk1. Great rifles, but a day and night difference.

It's all about what you like and application. I grew up shooting a Springfield A3 and an Enfield Mk5. I liked the Enfield better, the action just felt more comfortable to use and yes it was faster, but the Springfield was decidedly more accurate. To each his own.

My Swedish Mauser is cock on close. It was built in 1910 but was modified to a carbine in 1938. The straight bolt handle was bent down and works ok with a scope mount. It's pretty stiff on close but you get used to it.

The main thing that I know is that if you learn on one type of action, the other just plain feels WRONG for a while. Me, I learned on SMLE's and cock on bolt lift just doesn't feel right.

My first time shooting bolt guns, I found that cock on open is smooth to cycle until you push forward and then all the sudden something pushes back - and it's not the cartridge feeding. It's more, it's springy, it's the firing pin spring.

It's a lee enfield, it's meant to be ran briskly. Then, it is fast.

How about a video comparing the krag and lee enfields bolt speed and smoothness figured it would be a interesting piece

AN 03A3

Super neat. Id love to see more old school technical videos again

I became a fan of closed cocks when I first bought a lee Enfield.

Is Bloke a closeted Finn??? He pronounced Tikka to well.

Fully autistic nerdery is the best kind of nerdery.

Excellent video bloke! I've never had the pleasure of firing a bolt action rifle since getting into the world of firearms is fairly difficult in germany if you don't have a lot of money to spend, but I've always been fascinated by the different systems that people came up with for bolt actions. This was a great explanation of the strengths and weaknesses of these two ideas and what to expect from them. Now i just need to get enough money to go to a rental range (luckily there's one not too far from here) so i can finally shoot some xD

Nerd out! Thanks Bloke.

Things you can say about your rifle you can't say about yourself
"It's a Cock-on-open design"

If you are left handed working a right bolt. The cock on close is easier for reaching over with the left hand (the weakest portion of that method is the opening).

Course the winner is a k31 with lh adaptor! Trouble with that is first time I used that I whacked myself in the nose!

I grew up shooting rabbits with a BSA Sportsman 15 (very common .22 in NZ) so very used to a cock on close action, didn't realise that cock on open was much more common till I got older and used my brothers Remington 700 action .308 rifles.

A video on the Toz 17 would be great.

Here for the nerdery. ;)

Very well explained, are you an educator by profession?

The phrase "Work it like you mean it" is literally the answer for both cock on open or cock in close.

Great video!

And then there are systems like the chassepot that need a manual cocking!

And I suppose lever actions are a cock on open system as well. Along with single action semi automatics, in a sense.

gay...

Can a cock-on-open be readily converted to cock-on-close and vice-versa?

Ive seen it stated multiple places that cock on opening offers more primary extraction and i dont see how that makes any sense at all.

Bloke, THANK YOU! My brother has a 1903 he sometimes uses for reenacting, and the bolt at times seemed to rotate a little and get stuck if it was pulled back too briskly. Everyone just assumed "Greta" was a bit tired and needed to be handled with more care than the other 1903 we have. I just checked, and it's got a what looks like a faulty/broken Bolt Sleeve Lock! Thank goodness it's only an $8 part, and the rifle only ever gets fed blanks.

Thanks for wading into that minefield to save Ian!

Wrong kind of cock on the thumbnail image... 😁

Thanks Bloke, this was very much indeed vaguely interesting!

For those about to cock, we salute you.

My main takeaway from this is that I now know Bloke likes playing with his cocks 😂

Anyways beautiful rifles man, and thank you for the detailed explanation of the pros and cons of each

Cock hahaha. Sorry.

Bloke, how rare are left-handed bolts, action rifles Do they make them and can you get one

very cool!! Its neat to see the engineering behind the tools.

Thanks. Would still love to see a mad minute or even a match video with the BMS. That thing fascinates me.