Engine timing chain vs timing belt: What's better? | Auto Expert John Cadogan

OK, so timing belts have the advantages you describe. The big downside is the labor to change them, and it should be possible to make them quick to change, though maybe not as easy as a fan belt. Some engines need a half tear-down just to see the timing belt. Then there is the question of faulty new parts, enfuriating when there is so much labour to put them in. And there are so many good non-interference engines, why would an engineer put you at risk of destroying an engine because of a faulty new timing belt?

or like a bentley we just got with a gear drive ! i can tell you anything over 800hp a belt holds better than a gear drive or chain based on an actual experience i had with a ray barton 526 hemi at 900 hp the chain was stretched the gear drive jumped 5 deg and the belt was fine.

The best timing is a Cicada

Isn’t the problem when either fails, whether the thing is an interference engine type or not? What happens maybe 1) boom or 2) stopped on the side/middle of the road waiting to be towed to get a spanner on it to put a new do da on. Depends on collateral damage that happened to the other bits surrounding the disaster. All things. Fail with insufficient LUBE, goes beyond the motor, nudge, nudge.

I dont drive enough so if my car had a chain I would have to replace it maybe once in 50 years. Meanwhile a belt just goes bad with age so it must be replaced every 10 years or so.

And then the crack smoking engineers said: LETS PUT A BELT IN OIL

It is a no brainer. A chain generally lasts the life of the engine. Or you could replace the belt every 60K and pay hundreds of dollars for the experience. Oh and scratch the motor when the belt falls apart at 62K and it is an interference motor. Now if you are worried about the chain stretching a millimeter, the motor will most certainly stretch a belt, and a lot sooner too. Belts are lighter and quieter, but if you want less maintenance, the chain is the only way to go.

Why can't we have gears or rods/shafts?

I do agree timing belts and chains are both very bad because they both will break in due time the only true timing set up in any vehicle is the gear driven kind any thing else won't last! I'm here in the US of A! Have a GOOD DAY John

If your Vehicle Engine isn't GEARED
IT'S NOT CLASSED AS A VEHICLE ENGINE FULLSTOP

My 97 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins 12 Valve is all gear driven, no belt, no chain.

Spoiler:: Gear Drive.

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N47 chains are OK, they increased service interval from 15k to 30k. Of course chain 🔗 is going to snap ❗👍

gear driven cams are the absolute best.

Hello from Southern California. In 1977 I bought a 1968 Mustang from the original owner in excellent condition, except for one thing, the owner immediately disclosed to me that the timing chain had jumped a tooth and needled replacement. The engine ran well in park, but when i drove it, there wasnt much get up and go. I was 17 and really liked the car, 289 v8, automatic, factory AC, power steering light blue 2 tone blue interior, white vynil top...yup. Perfect. I bought it for 500 dollars. Of course that was alot more money then than today. So.....I was driving along about 3 days latet took a dip in the road the car suddenly just died. Thaks to Grandpa, a nrw chain was installed and wow!! It had plenty of get up and go! I still have it, its in beautiful condition, and still running great. Also i have 338.000 miles on my 94 Trans Am I bought new, original timing chain, engine never been touched. Still runs like new and i dont hear any strange sounds from the engine at all. Ive put well over 200.000 miles on several other cars and never had any chain issues. Just my experience with them. Enjoy your channel !

But you have missed one new smart design called the Wet timing belt that Fords Ecobooms sorry Ecoboost engine use as well as engines from Stellantis, VW,,

What is the service life of ford's ecoboost wet belt ?

Nah, early Holdens used neither! FX, FJ, EH, etc...

By the way, this new 10,000 mile oil change interval is crazy. I still go no more than 5000 even with full synthetic. For whatever reason I change my oil even more frequently on my motorcycle.

Hell for that matter why not timing gears? Remember those. You’re spot on with your video.

Too funny. You said every car owner you know wants
1. A car that uses no fuel
2. Goes really really fast
3. Never needs servicing
4.doesn’t have any emissions
5. Never wears out
Other than the #5 you just described a Tesla. Their battery’s only last about 500K Km but are guaranteed for 200K Km
Oh, and with a tesla you can forget about the timing belt or chain debate as well as hundreds of other failure prone ICE parts.

Great information as usual, thanks for sharing your impressive knowledge and insights

I’d go for timing gears it’s just a shame that hardly any manufacturers use them and I can’t afford a Koenigsegg. That being said belt/chain failure isn’t a problem on non interference engines.

The finest example of chains going tits up is the Fiat 1.3 diesel abortion😂😂😂😂...saws through chain guide and oil pump digests all the debris...top job😊

Well, the Audi TFSI uses a belt and cam chain so that’s the worst of both worlds eh. Gear driven valve trains should be a universal norm, or, even better, free valve as in certain high performance Scandinavian sports cars.

More specifically badly made chain vs belt is more appropriate on many cars now.

I like a rubber timing belt , replace it and the tensioners and it all brand new again for another 100000 kms

Timing chains are still usually the choice for high performance, high revving engines, such as V6s and 8s; as they are seen to be less likely to fail under load; whereas many ordinary twin OHC 4 litre petrol and diesels will more commonly be found with timing belts. This is often accompanied in the case of the former by tight engine bays and inaccesible chains; as they are sold as 'for life'; by their very engineering choice and nature they imply non-serviceable; timing belts usually, but not always, are much more accesible, as they are designed as service replacement items. Consequently the difference in replacements costs can be huge: engine out, often for chains, several thousand; in-place, a few hundred for belt/water pump. Just like 'long service' intervals and 'sealed for life' gearboxes, these things are often marketing and only every true for the 1st, possible 2nd owners. So agree not a straight preference for one of the other - you usually don't have a choice depending on the type of car you like. I'm personally glad mine has a belt though and is relatively cheap to change, but that doesn't mean much in the grand scheme.

When your balls smell like an elderly home, you need it, HAHAHAHA!

I been driving cars in N America for 1/2 century, we used to have mostly chains and I never had a failure. But I seen my share of chain jumping a teeth with Ford and Chryslers gears made with nylon. For Chevy small blocks for racing, you can swap that out with gears. I am tired of having to change belts every 150,000 km for my 95 4 valve Suzuki, luckily it was not an interfereing engine but the books said it was. Now I drive Toyotas . Must be many people thinks like me, for belts are starting to be unfashionable. I watched one video of an Audi V8 , you have to pull the engine to get at the chains for it is at the transmission side. Most of those engines get junked for it is too expensive to fix.

Your car today have a shorter run time and have more problem than the old car as I have seen more new car off the side of the road and blow and smoke out from the rear pipe is this good no and what I have seen and been told by Expert and you are run down chain and belt every part wear.

You say new car are better you are wrong as for one driver any every one in that new car are dead why as I found a lot of them on my list as for the old cars back it the 70s is about the same but in some case where I seen the drive it a pole and the driver get of his car with no problem as for air bag are a waste of time as they do nothing to the drive when the car is still moving down a cliff is this ok No as for the new car and the driver on fire or nothing left of them.I have been driving old car when I was in my 20s and I fine no problem so when it come with old car to new car it the same you still die in them as for power of the new car is wrong they should only have the speed down to 80klm and power . Just because you are a Auto Expert john mean that you are right what you say.Why is that driver and the others in a new car are safe as I seen and hear about so many people get kill in new car today.

You are correct it is the BMW diesel engine which is the problem with timing chains. I have owned a 2007 BMW X3 E83 3.0d for 6.5 years now. I carried out research for about 6 months on these cars prior to the purchaser of my 3.0d (6 cylinder diesel as opposed to the 2.0d 4 cylinder). When I purchased my X3 in April 2017 it had only 100,000km on the clock. It had been serviced mainly by a dealership. I have never taken it to a dealership, except for the air bag recall, and have had it serviced at least every 6 months or 10,000km. I use only top grade full synthetic oil in the engine (suitable for DPF filters). I have also had the swirl flaps removed and replaced with blanks (as recommended by my BMW specialist mechanic). The only mechanical failure I have had in 6.5 years of ownership has been the harmonic balance wheel which required replacement. The car now has only 153,000km on the clock. BMW claim the 6 speed auto ZF transmission never needs servicing. I had the transmission serviced at 147,000km. If you go to the ZF website you will find that they recommend a change every 100,000km.

If you follow the maintenance schedule with quality parts, belts are as reliable as chains. Neither are as reliable as gears, but with the distance from crank to cam on OHV designs, gears are not the best option because of the number and size of gears, along with the inertia therein, accounting for cost. Yes, a lightweight gear train could be designed, but at significant cost, both in design and manufacturing.

Gear driven even though other people have said it 6 in a row can go I'm a big fan of the mechanical straight 6 with carburetor and if it's not petrol or gasoline whichever you call it then diesel 6 l

Chain all day long. Though never had problem with either in 30 years. Cambelt replacement cost is absurd. My last one was $739. So therefore chain seems logical choice for me.

why not ditching overhead camshafts and revert to pushrods ? why not titanium pushrods to lower inertia ????

Im happy with belts except when the manufacturer invents a tension scale based on something they made up seem units anyone?

Sure, a bad implementation can overcome a better technology. However, I will take a well executed chain over a well executed belt any day. I prefer gear drive, but that is just way too heavy and complex on OHC engines. On an OHV engine, gear drive is the way to go.

Pretty based way to select a used car though.. Ml triton has been a very faithful tool

I might get crap for being a sycophant but I'm comfortable in my ability to say I like something and weather the storm.. I don't mind the ads John, they're also informative and when you say you use the product, I believe you, unlike pretty much every one else.. I got Nord VPN because of your endorsement and its excellent, just like you said.. Thanks.!! might have to look into the manscape, as being similar age to you, I have hair in places I don't need it.. cheers dude.

Ads, no escape .

Hi! Technically you spout only half truths this time. Look at most very high performance motorcycle engines, or how the 1996 to 2006 Mercedes Sprinter engines held up to any other van diesel engine with often first repairs at 600,000 kms and well going over 1.5 million, or an old example, the 1950's design Alfa Romeo Nord engines still holding all the long distance (like 100,000 kms) non-stop full-throttle records. Most belts wouldn't even last one single session... Many more reasons one could add, such as the inertia of the chain against the often huge mass of the of the distribution belt wheels, guides and tensioners too many 'modern' engines are sporting.
In reality we're talking about the addition of gadgets that make 'modern' engines modern, but technically there's not been much new under the sun for a long time.
Why do manufacturers often change very succesful engine designs to 'new' ones? Production cost.... That should make us ponder and wonder.

My old 1980 Chrysler V8 has a chain engine. When the camshaft was upgrade we decided to install a new chain just to be sure as the engine had done 230,000 kms so the condition of the old one was unknown?
However the original seemed to run fine and was still very quiet.

I'd go electric with tesla and have no more service worries!

Cars have belt or chain? Guess Tesla don’t count🤣

Nah... I do lean a bit personally toward a chain, but my "big" priority when shopping cars is to dig into a Chilton's or Hayne's book on a prospective beast, and scour through several of the routine (to me) maintenance procedures, to see what kind of obscene obscure or downright arcane tools or parts I may have to buy, particularly regarding the lists of TOOLS... AND I read through the steps... which is another "life lesson" that like many home-hobbyists who fancies himself qualified enough as a mechanic to push a wrench under my own hood...

AND wherever I see the step listed "Take this into a qualified shop or competent mechanic" as part of a procedure I would consider routine, I reconsider just how precious this particular beast might be... There's rarely a good way to tell what past owners have done to cars (or trucks or utes whatever)... and you CAN bet good money on something strange causing unusual damage or wear somewhere in a used vehicle's past, so a solid brush up on the factory spec's of what's needed to replace regular parts just about anyone with a lick of mechanical sense SHOULD be capable of obtaining doesn't hurt. There are just TOO DAMN MANY makes, models, and years of automotive history still on the road, a likely Aussie situation as much as it is in the States, though more and more emission standards are whittling away at the herds populations "in the wilds"... as it were.

BUT Saturn had a fine chain and sprocket system, EXCEPT for the fact that without a particular tool that cost into the hundreds of dollars and could ONLY be obtained through a personal relationship with the Snap-on specialty tool dealers motoring around in their box trucks and vans... you could NOT remove or adjust or do much of anything with the chain tensioner... a NEEDED part in any chain replacement, whether hydraulic or spring impelled or even the manually adjusted varieties of the "good ol' days" when every male worth a grain of salt was expected to act like he was born with a monkey wrench in one hand and a crescent wrench in the other and the knowledge of differences between a monkey wrench AND a plumbing wrench or pipe wrench... from birth.

Currently the biscuit-burning rants that have elicited the worst of my profanity laden tirades has been about replacing a battery, or even charging one, whether or not it was jumpered between vehicles or simply attached to a charging device artificially... AND the repercussions that cascade if done incorrectly, or without a dealership specific device to "reprogram the ECU" which obviously can't be done cheaply nor with an OBDII or OBDIII device from over the counter at an otherwise "ordinary" parts and tools shop. Obviously for insurance and liability purposes, the manufacturers are going to discourage charging or jumping cars from other vehicles, and most of us (should) know not to leave any accessories powered up in this process, for the risks of electronics damaged beyond fathomable repair... BUT no, apparently, we've reduced our public sensibilities to the level of sheep who need ushered through by the hand in the steps required to even unfasten the two wire leads to the battery, because only dealers are even allowed to ever do that little chore, and OF COURSE, you "the private consumer" on top of finding the ONLY reliable means to find out your alternator has sh*t the bed, and already expect that expense, but the tow to the dealer since charging AND changing car batteries is just too complicated for the "everyman"... and that's going to mean getting skewered for as much cash as can possibly be extracted for the least amount of work... and never less than $200 more than whatever your original issue or trouble would've cost had you the option to just buy the parts and install them on your own...

No such luck for the future of mechanics aspiring to save themselves a few dollars on ordinary procedures like plugs, wires, filters, or fluid changes.,.. and soon we'll all be complete drooling idiots while our shiny digital toys amaze us with the sci-fi fantasy worlds of tomorrow... Frankly, I think I'm glad we haven't invented some longevity or immortality drug. I think it much more preferable to have a span to live and enjoy the fantasies of the things you might've seen had there just been a bit longer than the reality of actually facing them... ;o)

Shaft drive with bevel gears are the one I prefer…