Are Gravel Bikes OVERRATED?

In the UK a Hybrid bike used to refer to basically a road-bike with flat bars also known as a City bike. It would usually come with wide gearing 3x, narrow road wheels. Ridgeback Genesis Day was a very popular Hybrid. Not really for off-road.

I lived in Portland and Astoria 40 years ago and regularly waxed my bike chain in the summers and petroleum base for the winter. My drivetrains always had a long life. Waxing chains in certainly not a new thing.

I kinda wish someone would do a thorough review of a 90's mountain bike. Just to show how different they are from a modern gravel bike or ATB.

I restored my '95 Clark kent a few years ago and was absolutely shocked at how terrifying and uncomfortable it was to ride

Chain wax for 20 years. Paint thinner or gas to clean, white lightning, over lube, wipe it off every 2-4 rides. Deep clean once a year. Shhhhhhh….that’s a what the owner of a large local shop does.

In the early 2000s I bought a Gary Fisher "dual sport" "hybrid" "29er" (when those were first coming out) and I still own and ride the bike. It has been everything from a single speed mtb with 2.1" tires on to a more upright 1x setup with 42c tires. Imo the hate on hybrids is just elitism in most senses because in actuality the vast majority of people would probably be more fit on a road centric hybrid or a dual sport bike. To me these new "gravel" bikes are just a mix between bikes like the dual sport I have and cyclocross bikes, so a hybrid in its own right with an inflated "cool" tax applied.

1997 Marin expert steel frame with 26x1.75 (45mm) Continental Travel Contact makes for a killer gravel bike. Triple ring 24/34/48 w/ 11-34 for max bikepacking hauling ratios capability. Why use anything else?

yo!

Gravel bikes are oversold that I agree! That's interesting because what brought me into gravel bikes was the Specialized AWOL and diverge commercials with UltraRomance, Sarah Swallow and a couple that's was definitely PartyPacing. But Specialized stopped doing the adventure spectrum in their commercials...

I am comparably young and the gravel boom happend right as I got in to cycling, especially bikepacking (wnt everywhere by bike since I was little, but I didnt ride for fun).
The Gravelbike is irreplacable for me, I dont want to plan my routes for too long and I want all the versitility, I just bike packed in norway where I rode mainly on paved roads, roads on wich I couldnt have ridden an mtb and still had fun. Often times though, my route led me on to loose gravel paths or forest roads, roads wich would have defenetly been faster on an mtb, but I wouldnt ever have gotten there.
I just dont want to miss out and when riding a week or longer, I want variety. For me, gravel bikes, especially a bit more capable adventure gravel bikes are perfect for me.

One thing about Santa Cruz lust is for us tall people--they make them in sizes that work for people who are up to 6'7" like myself.

A lot of the "progressive" long reach, short stem, high stack, slack bikes - also come with a steeper seat angle. This makes the size easier to fit, as people with longer legs are thrown more forward. So while there's less wiggle room with the stem, it does compensate elsewhere.

In my mind a hybrid has 700x38 ish tires. An atb had 29x2 or 27.5x2 ish tires. Rigid forks on both. Slacker head tube angle on atb.

Isn't a gravel bike the new hybrid? It's a perfect definition.

Glad you're finding a way to keep these going. I really enjoy both of your channels and chatting together is a win.

About electronic shifting. For most people it is unnecessary. However, the shifter set ups can be modified, and additional buttons can be added to them. This is very helpful to cyclists who cannot use one of their hands to shift with. I have cerebral palsy in my right hand and cannot use traditional brifters or trigger shifters. One of my road bikes has Archer MFR buttons on the left side of the dropbar. In the future, I would consider trying SRAM AXS or Shimano Di2

Used to have a 2022 chameleon rigid and 120 mm fork, mostly gravel some cross country stuff,
Wish they made the stigmata and alloy to because it felt really good. Since have sold it and paid for a steel waltworks and titanium seven for the price of the Santa Cruz so no complaints here.

Riding a hybrid in the 90s meant you weren't cool enough to ride a mountain bike. Yet in 2023 a hybrid bike is probably what I'd consider as the base for the most versatile bike: relaxed to sporty geometry, chubby (not fat) tires, 700c wheels, no suspension or short travel front suspension, high sweep flat bar or alt bar.

The first Stigmatas were pure CX race bikes. I don't mind that it has evolved to adapt to today's market but keeping the same model line while changing its essence can be misleading and confusing.

When I hear ATB it reminds me of the GT MTBs of the 90s. Think they had that All GT Terra sticker on the seat stays.

"BAR AND STEM" - A bike shop that can serve beer AND has a traditional greenhouse OR an Amsterdam-style coffee shop (depending on local regulations).

ATBs in my opinion means more comfy/relaxed geo and room for bigger tires, up to say a 700x50 or 650x2.2. Like the Surly Ogre. It's just an bicycle (sic). Also needs to have mounting points for fenders, racks, things that are useful on a bike that weight weenies would scoff at.

I think gravel bikes are in that good place of comfy but still sporting. It's really easy to throw some slicks on a gravel bike and be competitive in a lower-pace race like cat 4 or 3 criteriums or a gran fondo.

There's definitely a sect of gravel bikes built solely for racers (spirit of gravel my ass). The bike I'm getting rid of is a BMC, it's got really long and slack geo which is great for what I do with it, it's really good offroad and onroad, but there's no accessory mounts and it's a 1x only frame. Hence, trading it in for an aluminum frame Salsa Journeyer for better utility. I'm taking the money I saved from not having a carbon frame and putting that towards a 650b wheelset with good gravel tires for a hot swap wheelset. The stock 700c will have some slicks for fair weather riding and keeping up with the roadies on group rides!

All indexed brifters have a short click moving down the cassette and a long sweep going the other way… not sure why this is a noteworthy callout with Sword?

I live in the Seattle area and there are bike shops that are predominantly retail and service with few being a workout/fitness/coaching center, rental center, and/or coffee shop. That said, I think the reasons the generalist bike shops (e.g., don't only sell solely Rad Power/eBikes/BMX bikes) here have success as just retail and service are because of the large volume of cyclists of various disciplines, locations are fairly spread out between competitors and the coupling of community culture and loyalty. Mind you, Amazon HQ is in Seattle. A lot of the cycling culture in this area does have a support local mentality and many don't really treat the bike shop as a demo center for Amazon purchases, well, not in the mtb circles I'm in. Plus, lots of people here commute by bike to work so these bike shops have been so integral in their daily lives as there is a personal relationship. Here, you're lucky if you can get your bike in for service and done in a week! In the face of direct-to-consumer (Canyon), proprietary pain-in-the-ass bikes to work on (VanMoof), mobile bike repair (VeloFix), Amazon, Dick's Sporting Goods, REI, etc., it is possible for an everyday, generalist bike shop to do well.

This is the problem with all one word definitions. ATB means a bunch of different things to different people. I think gravel bikes are the epitome of ATB. A bike you can ride on paved roads and on easy single track (while not being ideal at either), while at the same time being quite performant on non-paved roads. Years ago these were called touring bikes and in general back in the day they were more road focused, but they were the genesis in some ways of the modern gravel bike. I think All Road is more descriptive than gravel but words are tricky, and unfortunately much easier to use than a spec list which a lot of folk don't understand anyway.

early 1990's Utility/Cross/Hybrid bikes like my mine were 700c x 28-38 tires with a flatish bar. Comfortable, nimble, and Very Fun to ride. BTW not a cheap bike. BUT by the late 90's Townies and their ilk started calling themselves Hybrids, and there was a market for a cheaper bike to tool around the neighborhood. bigger seats, upright etc. and cheap = heavy. anyway early Italian hybrids are pretty nice bikes!

Love your podcast. Really enjoy you getting all "techy" and "sciencey". Looking forward to picking up the new Sword group.

One thing that surprised me is the poor loading possible on carbon forks. 'Adventure' options will have 3, sometimes 4, mounting points on each blade but cannot carry a significant load for fear of pulling out the threaded studs. Which is why the 'bike packing' fork bags are so small!

As a Santa Cruz owner, I’m not impressed or interested in the stigmata… the Marin Muir Woods is more exciting at a quarter the price…. Please review!!

Also… hybrids are Dad-bikes. I picture new balance shoes, white athletic socks, jeans shorts, and a tucked in t-shirt.

IMHO, the evolution of mountain to gravel to ATB is really a sign there's a market for high end "party pace" or "hybrid" bikes. Originally, these bikes were designed for the average joe which can handle going on tarmac, gravel, and dirt roads / paths while carrying a reasonable amount of gear for a full day's adventure. Unfortunately, as competitive events begin to take over a category of bikes riding, it drives development and innovation towards the needs of the "pros" rather than the needs of "people". Eventually the only bikes you see within the category are trickle down bikes designed for competitive cyclists. These bikes are generally not appropriate the average person. Which creates space for the creation of another category of bikes designed specifically NON-competitive all terrain riding & adventuring.

I think Hybrids are built by the people like how I built my only gravel riding capable bike, a single speed rim brake bike I use for commuting and casual fondos and gravel riding, Companies created Gravel to sell it because they knew we already have the bike for such riding.

skinny tires + flat bars : hybrid
fat tires + flat bars : ATB

I’m trademarking this now: GPB = General Purpose Bike

Gravel bikes overrated? Yes! Severely overrated! For the price of a modest gravel bike today, I could easily buy several classic cross/mountain/hybrid bikes from the 80's or 90's which perform the same tasks, are just as much fun to ride and are much easier to maintain (IMHO). I stopped being interested in "new bikes" long ago. Yes, I'm a bonafide retrogrouch. I was in the industry when Grant Petersen was still with Bridgestone and "Cross Bikes" or "Hybrids" were just coming out. Ah, those were the days...

In 1990 I first saw a hybrid bike, also called cross bikes at the time. I had a couple of kids. The older kid was old enough to ride a bike. I wanted a bike that I could ride on the streets with the kids, and ride on dirt trails by myself. I ended up getting a Performance Transit. It fit my needs perfectly! I just saw one for sale - listed as a utility bike. I still like those old hybrid bikes for grocery/errands/commuter use.

Realistically there are only 4 bike types. Road (and all tire sizes), mountain (hardtail, full suspension, etc.), hybrid (cross between road and mountain) and others ( cargo, e-bikes, recumbent, folders...). Any bike today fits into one of these 4 styles.

Hybrids back in the 90's were generally poorly spec'd touring frames with semi-knobby 700c tires. Most were embarrassing to own unless you had a carbon MutiTrack tricked out with some Paul Components, Kooka, and other anodized parts. Even still it wasn't a mountain bike with a fork, and it wasn't a road bike either. Basically, no matter how good it was, it was the middle child in the family.

Most commuters and non-racing cycling groups are really passionate about cargo and practical hybrid bikes. I wouldn't be caught dead on a non-practical bike that couldn't have panniers and fenders attached to it.

With xc mountain bikes running what used to be all mountain geometry it's a good thing gravel/atb/hybrid can come in and fill that space.
Older mountain bikes with road focused tires always worked great for road and light dirt trails. Ridgid bikes make tamer rides more fun so it's good that people can enjoy that. Back 5+years ago I was always wondering why no one was making ridgid mountain bikes to train on since most people don't have DH tracks nextdoor.
I hope 3x drivetrains come back in the name of gearing efficiency or range. That would be funny.

In my world the difference between a hybrid and and ATB is simply tire width. Hybrid has 28-37mm wide tires (usually 28-32mm), whereas an ATB has 40-45mm wide tires.

A hybrid is exactly that, a hybrid. So a flat bar bike like an MTB, but with narrow tires.
ATB is a flat bar bike with wider tires than a hybrid, but not as wide as MTB (57-76mm tires)

For a chanel that has just reviewed a shimano acera derailleur positively it seems a bit of a u turn to beat up on hybrids for being low spec. I think the average "unserious rider" could use a hybrid for anything they would use a gravel bike for at a fraction of the price because they are not paying a premium to be "gravel specific". To coun a few of your own phrases 😂

Gladys Bikes saddle library is the coolest shit ever! I've been, and we really need more bike shops with unique community interactions like that.

hybrids bikes are commuters bikes that were design to look like a touring/road/mountain bike

Wireless shifting has potential in that it cleans up the cockpit and makes mods that much easier. Being able to mount a switch anywhere you want to change gears would have awesome implications. Imagine cycling gloves with built in shifting buttons. Current costs are overpriced but should come down over time. A friction style wireless would be sweet. Maybe something that you could set the index on the fly and maybe have micro adjustments to dial it in allowing the derailleur to learn and maybe auto shift based on metrics set by the user.

In Europe we call it "Trecking" instead of Hybrid. We also call low spec Trecking/Hybrid Bikes that arent ment for light offroad Touring just "City Bikes". Before the E-Bike boom they were the most common bikes around here.

“Atb’s are just cooler hybrids” 😂😊

I have a circa 2000 Cannondale h600, 700c, 3x8, cantis, external routing. I take it to Block island, nice hero gravel/paved trail all-terrain bike. It’s now “in-demand” 😊

There is a problem in that the term "hybrid" has been applied to so many types of bikes that it has become meaningless, but I still consider it to only apply to the 90's bikes described in this video. My 1995 Trek Multitrack was essentially a first generation gravel bike and the only thing it lacked for me was enough tire clearance (maxed @40mm) and effective top tube length (it was 3-5 cm too short for what I need to be comfortable). Since the 90's, I've said that for most people (ie, people not dedicated to serious riding), the hybrid is the PERFECT bike.

If you go back and look at publications from the mid-80's, "ATB" was synonymous with MTB's.

in czech republic we dont have hibrid bike we call it cross bike or treking bike and difference between them I that cross bike is only bike wiouth any acesory and trekbike is usually same bike with acesory like fender and bike rack. When I first heard term hibrid it took me a while to find out what is tibe bike we talking about.