Winwing Orion Desktop HOTAS vs Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS

I will like to thank you and the rest of the Grim Reapers for teaching and showing me what I need to fly right.

So the "real" feeling of a flightstick highly depends on the aircraft you are flying. In an F16 Viper for example, you dont really move the stick. You just apply pressure and the system determines the movement of the aircraft.

arnt we talking about an extra 4 to 500 dollers for the wingwing? if not ill but it right now

Cap, I notice on the Winwings you regularly call the aft-most position of the throttle control levers "idle." But when you pull through that detent, isnt that engine cut-off?

Winwing waiting list almost 1/2 year away. :|

The problem I have with winwing sticks and my extention the vkb stick I want to buy is actually getting my hands on them. I live in the states and the warthog is on Amazon for $550 and I'll have it in a couple days but like winwing or vkb generally speaking they aren't in stock as regularly and to buy them you've gotta pay inport fees and they could take weeks to months to arrive. I'd love to get a vkb stick but I've just been so hesitant because idk when I'll actually get it.
Edit: I went on reddit and apparently it's typical to get a vkb stick in about a week. Gonna go buy one of those real quick

ABSOLUTE HORRIBLE COMPANY!! BUYER BE CAREFUL!! I ordered a complete F-18 system and had parts arrive not even screwed together and mating together. I complained to them an NEVER GOT A RESPONSE. I got over that but then just order and waited for the F-16 package. Got an email saying it was in and please pay. I tried but when I selected PayPal, the order DID NOT EXIST? WTF.

This is all great for those getting WINWING stuff for free. But, if you're a paying customer you get CRAP! I am so disgusted with the $1200 experience I have had. I would not be so critical if they would contact me and not just TAKE my money. I tried to buy the F-16 package for $650 and they wouldn't even complete my order using PayPal. Said my order did NOT exist. DONE!@

A bit unfair critique for the TM Warthog. There was a lot of opinion in there that others would not only disagree with, but even prefer the opposite. And even more people would be fine with either. First, you missed a feature of the Warthog, you can reverse the detent for afterburner or engine-idle, or remove it entirely so you have the entire throw range. It can even be filed down (irreversible) so you don't have to lift up to push past it.

I think the major theme of what is missed with the TM Warthog critique is that it is intentionally replica stuff. The considerations already made by U.S. military research was adopted pretty much wherever it wasn't a "problem." This comes up mostly in the button feel department and overall resistance to button activation and stick movement. IRL military pilots need to be damn sure what they're activating before it's activated. That's button texture + sufficient pressure to feel that texture and movement before actuation. I think that's why you have the Tm Warthog buttons feeling a bit more difficult and 'hard'. I think most pilots wear gloves(?) so they don't have the ability to be as sensitive as gamers are in thinking "oh, this is obviously __ switch." The stick force needed just off center being too high I am also fine with. That way, even if I'm close to center stick I can still easily feel that I am NOT really center stick and my aircraft is pulling or pushing one way or another in the environment. There's no mistaking the pressure I'm applying on that stick and that's a good thing for me.

TM also created this premium and replica HOTAS while allowing for use in normal desk PC setup as well as a hardcore cockpit build; which until the past two years most of their competitors in the premium sim gear space required you install their stuff on cockpit setups. The Warthog throttle is heavy enough to sit on my desk and doesn't move except possibly for the OFF->IDLE lift up which is tolerable since it's only during startup. This is doable even on a quite small PC desk top and the joystick base sits nicely on top of pretty much any office chair and you place your legs on top of it to place the joystick out in front. Even the MFD Cougars sit very nicely on top and in front of any desk to the left and right side of your keyboard. When you're done, unplug, and move. It took a bit too long for competition to catch up on this idea, but glad they're finally here.

I'm about to get the Winwing Orion2 throttle + F-16EX and it's interesting that even they(Winwing) disagrees with how they did the detents in throttle were done for the gear in this review -- and it was complimented. It's a subjective issue though -- some people like to "feel" detents but not have to use any mechanism (lift, finger lift) to move past them. That would probably be my preference as because then I won't have to change the detents between the various aircraft I fly. I can simply ignore the "feel" when it happens out of context. Orion2 throttle base detents are removable and either require more force to push through, or need finger lifts. I'm not completely sure.

Looking to upgrade from my TWCS and since VKB won't even talk about their "upcoming" TECS any more, I guess it will have to be either the WW or the WH. Virpil would be a dream, but that price-tag is just a bit too high for my taste. Thing is: I could have the WH for ~€235 all-in here by middle of next week, whereas I'm not too sure about WW's delivery-time. Plus they don't offer any import-duties/-tax calculator (or shipping cost overview as far as I can tell) on their site, so I'm not sure how much I would actually have to pay for the thing. a friend just ordered an additional grip for his WW setup and paid around €52 to €55 for shipping to the EU and import-duties, but that's a relatively light and small item, so I'm guessing a big-ass throttle would be quite a bit more expensive to ship.

I've tried the WW a few weeks ago and it seemed pretty good to me, but it's been years since I had my hands on a WH, so: Is the added hassle (and potentially higher cost) worth it for the WW?

It took so long that some cobwebs grew on your chin 😉🤪

As an American, I’ll never get tired of hearing a Brit say aluminum.

Unfortunately, our only option for quality SIM controllers is to support a Russian sympathizer, Belarus (Virpl), or a Chinese company (WinWing). Both countries have been sanctioned because of their global behavior, decades of interference, and undermining of US and British politics and social structure. I will not support these products, nor should you. Support the development of competitive products in countries that are not supporting a genocidal war in the Ukraine.

Im happy to stick with my warthog, although if i was sponsered and given free stuff i would happily use that instead lol

I agree with you about the base on the Warthog, After 2 years of use, the plastic got worn and I had an issue with stiction in it. I replaced the stick base with the Virpil WRBRD base and it was a huge upgrade. I don't agree with you on the button and switches tho. The Warthog switches and buttons are very tactile and are very good quality. If I was getting money and sponsorship from Winwing, I would probably put out a video like this so I could keep the sponsorship.

I can't believe you got married. The generosity of woman never ceases to amaze me. 😂🤣😅

Is she a communist? 🤔

I'm surprised you haven't found a mighty dragon controller set yet. 😂🤣😅

When I was in the Army I was a helicopter mechanic. When I was deployed to the Gulf War 1, I was working on AH-1's. One of our pilots was a firm believer in if you work on it you fly in it. So I got to go out on test flights riding front seat. Long story long, he would let us take the countrols. The thing I noticed more than anything is the Stick doesn't move at all. If you tried to yank it like you would fix wing you would end up upside down on the deck.

I'm dying of laughter at the end. good review man

All brand new equipment but has tape to the headphones?? kinda funny no?

Sorry to be a bother but is there any way to attach the Thrustmaster F-18 handle to the WINWING base? maybe an adapter? thank you for any help.

Nothing like this used to exist back in the day, I went through about 4 plastic cyborg controllers.

Thanks cap! I have a question. Can i use orion2 stick and TWCS together?

Can't go wrong with either of these. Pros and cons with all, and those who has the Warthog shouldn't have buyers remorse I think. In addition to the info here, you also have to think about availability. Often you can buy the TM Warthog domestically. Meaning, you don't need to worry about customs. in some countries, the customs will just kill the value of the product. I bought the TM Warthog this year for about 400 USD brand new. That is a FANTASTIC value, and the WinWing cannot compete on the value there. I know when cap did the video the TM Warthog was somewhat overpriced. No regrets for me, this will serve well for many years. I do recommend a couple of mods on the warthog though, the TDC "stick" nipple thing on the throttle is just awful, so it's well worth upgrading this to a proper analog stick, there are complete kits available for this which are quite affordable. I also swapped the spring on the stick with a lighter one, the green "Sahaj" one. I found the standard spring to be too hard, especially when flying helicopters. This green spring is a nice tradeoff, it gives a nice feel for fixed wing, and its light enough to enjoy helicopters. Personally, I would say it's a better value to spend 800 USD on the warthog and the TPR pedals, (I just bought my TPR pedals for about 450 USD) than to only buy a HOTAS from WinWing, if your budget is around 800 USD. The Orion is a good value at 500 USD, but in many countries you'll have to pay customs which may end up increasing the price to 7-800 USD (like where I live), which is too much in my opinion.

Oh that's methed-up

I honestly just love that you have duct tape on your headphones! LOL Really great and detailed review! I'm just looking to play Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 better. Because a controller on that game just songs. Just way too springy.

Looking at the Winwing now. I hadn't even heard of it until I looked at this video. Which by the way, was a change of pace because I'm so used to you posting vids about flight in the DCS and the like. So, thank you very much for making this video. Too all of you in the video, your input (no pun) was very useful and important to me!

Cheers!!!!

I'm not sure about the quality of winning, but their website is awful. Not easy to use and puts me off ordering. I'm sticking with Warthog as my last one lasted 12 years of nearly daily use.

Great comparison, just what I was looking for!
I thing of note though, I don't think it was mentioned in the video, at least I didn't pick it up. But that Thrustmaster Warthog throttle has been modified.
Sadly its a very much needed modification to the POV "hat" axis on the front of the throttle (second from the right).
On the original there is a small ball, like a miniature trackball design. And its the only POV hat that is analogue on the throttle.
And its really bad. It goes all over the place and sometimes gets stuck. Many people change it to a stick instead similar to the analogue sticks on an Xbox/PS gamepad. Its the only way to use that function.

where are people getting these prices for the hog? it was 500 when i got it, and i usually see it for 5-600.. wheres this 800+ coming from

Just now watching this in Jan 2023....Love the HOTAS comparison/review and the aerial refueling test afterward. Even in your worse day, you're all flying much better than I ever do...lol. I'm in the market for a HOTAS setup and this video was very helpful.

i dont know i feel like if you're going to compare 2 items its best if they are both in the same condition.

I would love to see a comparison between the programming software between the two. I have the older Thrustmaster Cougar Hotas and its programming software is an abomination.

I LOL'ed so hard when you were right there at the basket. TY for this vid! Super helpful in guiding me to ideal HOTAS.

first real throttle was the winwing orion2, then got a warthog throttle for the A10, the warthog feels cheap, not enought buttons or rotarys on the warthog

the warthog is the exact replica. No others are. So saying its not as good.... well you either want as real as it gets or you want to play video games...

I physically hacked my Warthog stick by cable tieing the spring to reduce the resistance and now its in my sweet spot. It takes a little experimentation and a few tools but it works!

Cap looks like Count Olaf from Lemony Snicket Unfortunate Events :D

Hello....je voudrais remplacer mon stick de chez Thrustmaster voila 5 ans que je l'utilise, je voudrais plus réaliste avec une technologie supérieure a mon Thrusmaster qui est déjà bien…je cherche un produit encore plus précis, que me recommandes-tu ? Et puis tu as pu tester le FSSB-R3 Lighting de realsimulator ? qui lui reprend la technologie du véritable F16 ...mais coute extrêmement cher malheureusement...mais je sais que c'est le top du top, c'est l'exacte sensation comme voler avec le F16 , avec un retour haptique dans le stick lorsque tu tires au canon.

Jesus! I’m glad I bought my warthog when I did $880 retail no no. I love the thing but I’m not paying $880.

I got proficient in f16c close formation and aar with a 15 years old 27€ crappy worn out Thrustmaster flight stick T 🤣. Then afterwards upgraded to viper tqs and warthog base + f16 stick. So much easier 😅.

I always pictured Cap as a mid-50s gentleman in a 3-peice suit and flat cap.

When you say Metal do you mean steel, stainless steel, aluminum, or another alloy? I guess you can rule out titanium 😅!

Looking at this 3 years later and you can get the Winwing Orion2 with the F-16EX stick for $400 (in the US, not sure about UK). The TM Warthog is going for around $550. I was about to buy one because I assumed the Winwing would be way more expensive. I'm glad I did some research. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on the Winwing.

I just broke my ANT ELEV rotation knob. I didnt do anything wierd, all i know it that it was never smooth when i was zooming in with the TGP. I will keep you guys posted about their customer service.

Does the WW support TARGET Script or any other kind of scripting language?

Nice review! But I didn't have any conclusion of which stick you'd recommend. Which one? I'm already calling it out with the HOTAS Warthog, as it's too heavy and stiff for me.

This sums it up for me. I want to get into DCS (Baddly) and I discussed a budget with the Wife based on Logitech (I am really not a gamer -- I am an Old School IT guy and for general purpose -- logetech is hard to beat -- just my time tested observation. But after doing my proper research in my opinion -- "Cheapest Best" in this category currently is the WINWING Orion 2. Since this is almost double the Budget I "Quoted" my wife I am going to have to wait -- uggg..... I am very excited to get started in DCS but I also think that without a proper environment I will just get frustrated so I am going to adjust the budget with the wife -- I hope she just clears the additional expenditure -- if so I can order soon maybe today. If not (Likely) I will ask for a WINWING Orion 2 for Christmas and in the mean time my save pennies -- If I don't get it as an gift I should have enough pennies saved up by then and will order December 26th. Holding out on DCS until I can get a WINWING Orion2. Great review.... Cheers.