A Case For Front Wide Channels In Dolby Atmos Home Theater

Just when I thought I was done buying speakers...Thanks Gene!!! Lol! As long there not Front Wide Bouncy House Speakers...Lol!!!

Are wide channels used for up mixing? I.e. 5.1 to 9.1?

Research in human hearing has proven that information from the Wide channels is much more critical in the presentation of a realistic soundstage than the Back Surround channels found in traditional 7.1 systems.

From the owner's manual of my Denon X3100.

And I, frankly, couldn't agree more. I feel like I'm getting next to nothing from the surround backs.

By the way, I'm relying on what Dolby Pro Logic and Audyssey DSX send to the front wide, which ain't too shabby.

Interesting thanks for the info Gene

I'm running 9.2.4, separates from a ToneWinner AT-300.
all RBH speakers.
LRs RBH SVTR towers, and RBH SV-821 center.
I'm FIR BI-Amping in my own custom made PASCAL S-Pro2 + 2ch & T-Pro2 6ch DSP amplifier I designed.
The surrounds are RBH SV-61Rs, custom made enclosure.
and RBH SI615s for Atmos.

Honestly, not a ton of wide content out there

A few years ago Gene you did several videos on front height speakers to utilize the Auro up mixer for music. Do you believe that if we make the effort to run more speaker cables into our theaters, the wide speaker placements would be more valuable? I envision more drywall work expanding my 7.2.4 theater, and yes, I wish I had the foresight to run more cables to potential speaker locations!

Thanks Gene! And thanks for your Marantz AV 10 VIDEO REVIEW! Really Really waiting for your Marantz AMP10 review.. Any eta on that??

Can a x3800h do front wides ?

I was very suprised how much info was sent to my side channels. Glad i installed them

I use two center channels for wides. Sounds better than my bookshelfs did.

This was an eye-opener for me. Thanks for putting it out here!

I use 7.2.4 configuration with Pioneer VSX-LX505 AVR connected to a Tonewinner AD7300PA+ driving Polk ES 15's, ES35 center and ES20's with 4 Pioneer Upward Firing Dolby Atmos speakers.

So I wonder if there is a bit of misunderstanding in how the encode/decode process works for Atmos. And maybe David F needs to speak to this because it’s possible I don’t have any idea what I’m talking about.

The mix isn’t “mixed” for wides. It’s just that your decoder can make use of the wides to further assist in the more granular placement of sound between the fronts and surrounds. I don’t think that engineers, when mixing in the Dolby renderer, have the opportunity to say “this is going to come from a front wide”. They instead say “this is going to feel like it’s coming from this point in space”. And if the front plus surround is generating that, great. If sides are generating it, great. Again, please correct me if I’m off base as I’m happy to learn. But I don’t think that there is content mixed for 9.1.6 or 7.1.4 or a sound bar or airpods. It’s all location based data and whatever decoder you have is going to do it’s best to recreate the artist intent for that sonic+spatial experience

My room won't work for front wide channels but is set up perfect for rear wide channels. Would the atmos decoder allow for that?

Inwall front wides great idea Gene

It's taken awhile for some mixers to jump on the Dolby Atmos bandwagon, specifically using tops/heights, but it's getting better. The same can be said for Front Wides. Are they worth having today? Meh, in some cases. But down the road, they'll probably be utilized much more. Just don't plan on Disney using Front Wides anytime in the next 20 years - lol.

Gene is spot-on with his comments about angled speakers. I have a very narrow room that isn't conducive to a 9.2.6 setup, but I did it anyway. My front wides are bookshelves on wall mounts and pointed towards the MLP. I could have done in-wall and just angled the walls/boxes, as well.

Will adding some bipolar speakers(already have them in a closet) at ear level and in the right positions work on this scenario as wides?

I don't see the need for this. I think the need for this is created by poor placement of the right and left mains. I like my mains placed around 14 inches from the side walls. In my system strong phantom images are created outside the boundaries of the room, especially the sides and front of the room. My system regularly creates the illusion of a space far larger than the actual room. I can't see that front wide speakers would add anything. I'm pretty sure they would be a downgrade and interfere with my left and right mains.

Not sure why DSU doesn't matrix LR channels to wide channels,so that they r always active and more ppl may upgrade then. If its selectively used for limited sound formats then it wd remain a niche proposition only

Hmm, I have 5.1.2 currently but want to get to 7.1.4 or 7.2.4. 9.X.6 would be pretty crazy, my processor (Anthem MRX 740 8k) wouldn't even support that

Great video Gene. I'm really pleased you made this. I often read (and even watch videos) where people talk about not bothering with front wides due to lack of content. This is completely untrue. My dedicated room is a 9.4.4 setup and found so much content with front wides, especially Atmos music. Many of my 4k disks use front wides and I've found great content on Netflix, Apple TV etc that uses front wides.

Mine are wall mounted and angled in towards the MLP at the same height as the LCR.

Nice vid.
Unfortunately i didn't have the money to add wides to my system... that's still quite a few years off for me. But it's definetely on my list for my next upgrade. For now I'm happy with my SR7013 7.4(mono).4 setup and tinkering with upgrading the room accoustics.

Yes the Krix Phonix and Hyperphonix have the said angled bracket you are referring to Gene

I heard that front wides should only be used, if your using speakers behind a fixed screen (with a projector). If your not using a fixed screen, then you don’t need wides. Also depending on your amp or receiver, if you use wides, then you will loose two Atmos. If your front main speakers are wide apart, at least 9 fee, there’s no point in wides either.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong or my XMC-2 Dolby upmixer simply doesn't utilize the wides, but they are simply a complete waste of space. There's barely any movies in Atmos that light those speakers up. So I would say buyer beware on this one, almost snake oil territory. Also HBO Max on my Apple TV only outputs 5.1, so not sure how you got the wides working on the last of us.

That's exactly what i was waiting for :D
Thank you, I will be adding front wides, but I have a Q. If my room only allows the front wides to be on the same line ( but further into the room ) as my front left and right. should I still go with it? ( i have an Accsutic transparent screen ).
Thank you again :D

All atmos uses wides, everyone just doesnt understand the below:

Atmos is 6 channels, max 4 ceiling if you want wides to ALWAYS work, if you have 6 ceiling speakers, a lot of movies won't use the wides unless 4 ceiling speakers.

Confirmed with videos from elan and spare change, one movie for example they both don't get wide out put but I would.

ATMOS IS A SCAM or are they not collaborating with receiver tech well, can't be spending more on channels to lose content

Question. Gene stated that some mixes are using wide channels, some are not. It was my understanding though that there are “static” mixes and “dynamic “ mixes.
Static mixes have a fixed output assigned to each of the 7.1.4 channels.
On the other hand, Dynamic mixes have the ‘objects’ in the digital sound sphere, and the processor then outputs depending upon speaker configuration, maybe even 32 channels, trying its best to place those objects in that sphere.
So, a static mix would not engage speakers outside the standard 7.1.4 without some up-processing, while a dynamic mix would use whatever was available to best recreate the spatial sound sphere. Is this correct?

Gene, do you use wide synth for non-Atmos material? Does that impact object placement for 7.1.4 if you're duplicating sound in the wides? I feel it might be doubling up in bass with the crossover from the wides in synth mode. Obviously, I love it for 9.1.6 Atmos when the wides are being incorporated, and that's becoming much more common. I have the HTP-1.

I would think we are now primed for a new or upgraded format. Atmos+ or something like that.
1. High resolution
2. Only Object Based
3. Doesn’t matter your specific speaker configuration, it uses all of what you have to give you the best possible fit to the original.

Seems that Atmos (really Dolby Digital Plus repackaged) is ripe for a rework. New receivers for all!

I have two pairs of side surround channels for two rows of seats. Would it be better to move a surround pair to wide channel duty, and only have one pair of side surrounds for both rows of seats?

Hummm, what about the front wides (with Yamaha) that go on the front stage wall above the left and right floor speakers?

Hello Sir.. does Rbh speakers match with Revel performa? Revel doesnt have option for these kind angled baffle speakers... thanks

I remember earlier videos where you were critical of atmos and maybe called it gimmicky.

I really respect anyone that is willing to change their opinions based on experience and new information. It’s why I am a fan of Audioholics.

Great video. Got a question regarding the video side of theater setup. What is the best tv to add pair with my demon 13.5 channel receiver?

Remember when Audyssey had this option?

AWESOME video, Gene. Without having installed my system yet, I'm still a bit confused as to how to best upmix everything to include Wides? What processing mode always works best?

Just listened to the Blu ray pure audio Ten Years After SDE release . Has the wide channels in use. (Dolby Atmos) Sounds wonderful!!!
I use DTS-X often with music using my wide speakers. Really open things up.
Try it
Thanks for this vid!

I have an older onkyo system the only options I have is either , Two height speakers, two wide speakers, or two rear speakers, which currently I have set up in my 7.2 system.

Wide Channels????

Most movies for wides are very rara

Would wide channels need to be the same height as the front? On wall with and angle seem idea to me.

Can't understand how manufacturers of inwall speakers don't have options to angle them it seems obvious.

I just picked this video at random to make a comment. I have been trying out, what seems like forever (but has only been a couple hours) to get my Sony 4K UHD Blu-Ray player to cooperate with my Denon X4700/Tonewinner AD8300 combination, along with the rear heights I added a couple days ago for a 7.2.4 system. I chatted with Denon and Sony and still couldn't get it to work...until I Googled my player plus Atmos and found your blog sight with posts on the very subject and my model and right after changing the settings and hitting resume movie, the movie "1917" came alive in Dolby Atmos :) Bravo to your members. Happy Friday the 13th!!

I have a 9.2.4 setup but never managed to get the Front Wides to produce sound while watching Atmos content. Does Atmos need to have FWs included specifically so cause of the issue is that I don’t have the right content? To my believe the sound objects are processed by my 13.2 capable receiver and sound from FWs should not be dependent on the mix?

Take a listen to “Strawberry Fields Forever”. The L&R front speakers aren’t used. Another interesting mix is “Eye of the Tiger”

So Auro 13.1 is winning the channel wars and atmos is winning marketing? I’ve purchased a very expensive set of in ceilings to be told this isn’t the way to go because they can’t be angled properly. I am also hearing that an Auro 13.1 is a better graphic to deliver atmos natively. I’m so confused.

Hilarious hearing Gene complain about the size of the M215 sub - doesn’t he have those refrigerator size RBH speakers in his room? Lol

Is the Storm Audio AVR upmixing to those front wides? Because my Marantz AV 10 will only upmix only up to 7.1. Anything Atmos or DTS:X is not upmixed.

I have the room and I just got the Cinema 30. My system is all Klipsch RP towers except the center (504C). I just happened to have the RP600M's in the closet, so I figured, why not try it out.