The Time Lord Victorious is Wrong! | The Waters of Mars | Doctor Who

He basically just tried to challenge death to a game of controlling fate & death won.

What made the Doctor realize he had gone too far wasn't Adelaide still dying. It's that he turned her death into a tragedy, more than before. Originally she dies on Mars as a heroic astronaut who tried saving her people and inspired her granddaughter to continue her legacy. Now, she dies, alone. By herself, by her own gun, in her home in the dark.

The Doctor became the villain because he drove someone to suicide here and he knows that. That's what got him, that he extinguished a light of hope for the future and made the future have to work things out in a different, arguably bleaker, way.

Careful, Doctor, your Valeyard is showing.

The Doctor acting like a high and mighty god only for Adeline's death to snap him out of it instantly reminds me of what Clara told the 12th Doctor in Face the Raven, "Your reign of terror will end at the sight of the first crying child and you know it."

“You know in over 900 years I’ve never met someone who isn’t important before.”

Imagine a GOD saving you from a literal destined death, just willy-nilly changing the course of history, the sheer courage it took to stand up to him and tell him, "No. You can't mess with our lives." is extremely commendable. She'd rather die than see her own continued existence endanger humanity. Captain Adelaide had a level of nobleness that I only hope we can all emulate one day (minus the dying part)

Oh man. This. This is when Doctor Who was really good, when it wasn't afraid to venture into real darkness a little. This was peak Doctor Who.

I really loved how Ten could go from such incredible kindness to such incredible darkness... possibly one of the best bits of proof that the Doctor needs a companion to keep himself from slipping like this and losing his humanity.

This feels like a Witcher 3 cutscene, I adore this.

When it was good. Before we started getting the message preached at us like a zealous preacher. He was a good male role model. Now a badly written mess with ever falling viewer numbers. No history all rewritten.

Literally the one scene i enjoyed in this entire disappointing episode.

Only her suicide woke him off that valeyard path. And his seeing all that could be suddenly hit him in his hearts...

Sad RTD will ruin this development into The Valeyard. This was one of the most poignant scenes I've watched in so long.

Just like Donna said "I think you need someone to stop you."

I just rewatched this episode. The first time I watched it I felt the way your supposed to, fearful that the doctor is acquiring a god complex, but after rewatching it I just dislike the Captain, she begged him to save her, begged, then cursed him when he said no. The man had to listen to her crew dying, literally listen to children losing their mother, and yet, when he bends over backwards, risks his own life and the laws of nature to save her. Not only does she treat him with fear and disgust, she spits in the face of all the effort he put in to save her by shooting herself. By the end of the ep. I kinda hated her. It’s funny, I know your supposed to be kind of inspired by humans in this show but the more often I watch Dr Who, the more sure I am that we humans are a stupid, vicious garbage species, most of what happens in this show is a human or the whole species fault, I mean, just think of how incredibly stupid every single companion is more often than not. I still love the Doctor (Matt Smith more than the rest) but I def don’t see how he puts up with us, the man has the patience of a saint, but that’s the thing isn’t it? He’s not human, he’s faaaar more advanced than we are, and yet every human he comes in contact with (including us viewers) judges and relates to him like he’s human, leave it to humans to be so arrogant that we expect a superior species to act how we think he should act, like we’re the most important life form in all of this reality. God we’re awful, to be honest, I’d have ditched the lot of us by this point.

This was the point when the Doctor was the most dangerously close to becoming the Valyard.

Look at how much brighter the whole filming is. Instead of the washed up muddy colorless crap we get in "Doctor Who" (don't get me started) this scene is so much more clear, so bright, you can see everything. I really wonder when did this trend start - I think with Jodie Whittacker's run, right?

I remember the first time I watched this episode and I thought it was amazing watching him fight against history it's self and then loose in a way he didn't expect and I thought it was amazing for the closing of his arc

lonely David Tennant arc was peak

People talk about this scene a lot, and rightly so. The acting, the script and the music is great, but nobody talks about the most chilling moment: the Doctor threatens Adelaide. When he unlocks the door to her house, brags about how easy it is for him to take away her sense of security, and then says "all yours" like he is giving her own house to her is villainous. The surface level easy-going facade drops when he turns to face the house and you can see the anger motivating this display of power. And they almost never break eye contact until 10 unlocks the door; they don't blink in this scene, emphasising the Doctor's rage and Adelaide's fear.

I had really hoped this magic was going to be in Russell's 2023 specials.

the time lord victorious did nothing wrong

Rewatching this scene has made me realize something.

In some parallel world, The Doctor didn't stop. Maybe Adelaide couldn't do it, or she did and the lesson he learned was that he had to protect people from themselves.

That's the multi-doctor special I want now. Tennant as the righteous villain from another universe facing off against this universe's Doctor(s). (Could even go further, why wouldn't the Time Lord Victorious work with his future and past selves when necessary?)

This episode really scares me when I was a little girl and it still give me the nostalgic vibe of it because I keep getting these memories of me being scared of the water monsters and the odd at the end of the episode. If I have to be honest, this is the only episode that scared me the most. And do you want to know why? It's because at the end of the episode where doctor turns around and sees the odd further away, just standing there while the saddest but scary music plays. I never get used it because I'm easily emotional when it comes to scary moments.

And also what scary that nobody knows what makes the water to be monstrous and why it is affectious. But I want to ask. Why are people saying the doctor is scary in the episode? I don't get it since I have learning disability. I know some people saying that knowing the history of somebody can be creepy but I still find it confusing when people are saying the doctor scares them because of it. I don't find the doctor scary at all.

I love how Ten's darkest moments is when he saved people he shouldn't have

Looking back this is his Heisenberg moment, and both actually feel the the effects and consequences of winning.

She really did understand the mavity of the situation.

It kinda sucks because eventually it kinda becomes normal fare that “small ripples” won’t have major history effects unless it’s a fixed point of some sort……he’s right to save her and doesn’t even know it, and she does for nothing.




Like, there’s him saving the people from Pompeii….and Capaldi has an entire arc that’s basically “save as many people as possible, no matter the outcome”

Reminds me of the warhammer story the last church.

Would killing herself in her own home really inspire her granddaughter the same way a story about her heroic death would? Or hearing about it from her grandmother’s mouth?

Doctor: “Is this it? My death? Is it time?”

Oof has left the chat.

Plot twist in 2023, The Time Lord Victorious is now the writers and directors of the 60th.

Fans: "Is there nothing you can't do?"

Creators: "Not anymore."

Can someone please put the song dizzy by Vic reeves and the wonder stuff into an episode of doctor who the lyrics are perfect for the doctor and the tardis

While seeing this side of the doctor is so interesting and fun to see in relation to his prior characterization, I can’t help but feel like all this anger and ego is a mask of sorts. Pretending not to care, I bet, helps him convince himself all those failures don’t mean anything to him.

I always felt it was a bit of a harsh judgement of the Doctor. Yes he went a bit mad with power and he used that power to save 3 people. He was just tired of being unable to save lives because the rules of time forbade it. I certainly think that was a concept that needed more time to breathe, have him save more people and start redefining history to his own liking, causing unintended havoc and just deciding to keep changing things until he gets it right. THEN someone like her kills herself to sort out the mess and he realises how far he had gone.

But instead, all he does is 'scarily' save 3 people and she commits suicide over it.

This scene is so powerful to me. A normal human woman's single action was enough to change the Doctor's god complex in an instant. It's completely in character and works just so well.

The Doctor's traumatic experiences during the Time War was clearly devastating. This war wasn't just on a universal scale, it probably utilized time itself as a weapon, creating paradoxes and erasing entities from history. It was a war beyond our comprehension, with catastrophic consequences that nearly obliterated EVERYTHING.

What the hell would that do to someone?

So many comments saying he acted like the Master, or that he almost became the Master, but the Time Lord Victorious would have been so much worse. The Master wants to rule over people. The Doctor wanted to rule over fate.

When the Doctor becomes the villain.

Its interesting that the doctor reffered to them as "little people" in earlier seasons he never wouldve done this, he was so admant that nobody was small or unimportant. But here its changed, and hes been corrupted by ego. Youd think after the midnight episode he wouldve taken something from that, that he isnt infalliable.

This makes the davros calling him out at the end of the series more poignant, as much as he saves humanity, humanity does so in return.

looking back at this scene I realized that the Doctor was essentially changing into his greatest enemy the master, while Im not sure if it would of been good for this route to take I would of found it really interesting if they allowed him to actually fall to complete darkness, that the he will knock four times and kill the doctor was not the master returning to kill the doctor, the but the doctor figuratively dying and replacing the positon of the master as a cruel all powerful evil timelord

I felt like that would of been a really good plot twist and subversion of that phrase and plot point, seeing the doctor becoming the monster instead, of course it wouldnt last forever and he would eventually come to turn with his actions, the show cant continue if he just stays evil and never pays the price, but it would of really shown the audience that the doctor is not above the moral high ground, that one of the smartest most clever and compassionate beings in existence can fully turn to darkness, throughout the era we got to see some of tennants dark feats, such as Davros pointing out how he instead fashions people into weapons even if its not intentional, how the doctor has an extreme hatred towards the daleks and tries to kill them as much as they kill him,

yet he never really has that breaking point, but this episode is the closest we have ever seen him atchieve that, and if she had not killed herself on that day, the doctor really would of fallen from grace and become a monster feared by not just his enemies, but by everyone

a time lord truly victorious

However I don't understand how she dying on earth doesn't change things

That doesn't mean you will commit suicide....what inspiration will your granddaughter take from that 🙄

If only someone coukd use this to show how bad the 60th is.

God.....back when doctor who was a masterpiece! Even this scene conveys so much emotion! Now the series is a depressing joke...

Is that servilia from rome?

What I love is that 10 was trying so hard to justify his decision of saving Adelaide despite the consequences, but then his facade breaks when he sees Adelaide kill herself. Just a really good scene.

This episode was really the start of Ten's villain arc - Adelaide sacrificed herself to stop it there and then and probably saved the Doctor's character by forcing him to analyse his conscience. Amazing writing, shame we don't have it any more.

That “tough” quote is coincidentally so tough

I think Adelaide Brooke would have been a great companion to the Doctor if he invited her to travel with him instead of sending her back things might have been different