Good Game Design - Spelunky 2: Reinventing Perfection

I think a big part is that it's a mix of sandbox and adventure

As someone who has put at least 400 hours into all 3 spelunky games each. I can confirm that spelunky 2 is definitely the hardest game by far. But also the best. It really is a improved and great sequel! They are all still fun but spelunky 2 definitely is the best.

its really impressive how elegantly derek managed to counter shop robbing strategies and how well thought out it all was.
many people would just think "make them harder to deal with" and hope the added difficulty was enough of a deterrent, but instead he chose clever and logical new systems which work to change the meta instead of just break the old meta
1) running in and fighting a shopkeeper became a bad idea since the most valuable items now blow up which is dangerous and costly
2) angering shopkeepers makes black market much harder, so jungle route becomes less valuable

3) having a shotgun+jetpack makes volcana much more dangerous since shooting the shotgun could recoil you into lava, or reflect off the robots, while them and magmars are immune to builets - and the jetpack is prone to blowing up, meaning that getting that old meta combo (which usually requires killing shopkeepers) also makes volcana route more dangerous
4) jetpack is less valuable now with the addition of other back items, most notably vlads cape.
5) forgiveness was added, which at first could appear to HELP the player steal from shops, but actually means that you never have to fully commit to robbing shops, meaning you can return to normal gameplay without racking up tonnes of items.
forgiveness also serves to add some strategy to robbing shops since if done right, it can be a short term risk if you think the reward is high enough in the moment, instead of just robbing every shop from the start to maximise items.

One thing I really enjoy about 2 which you wouldn't've been able to comment on at the time of this video, not knowing the chain yet, is how its secrets make so much more sense. Like as much as I love the secrets of HD, things like resurrecting into the moai head to get the hedjet are, in retrospect, kinda arbitrary in a way that most of Spelunky isn't - the way the sequel builds the chain out of more logical (and often more system-based) steps both makes it more satisfying to puzzle out and opens the door for high level play to find clever workarounds in the same way it does for all the other systems in the game.
Managing to cleverly use a mattock or the three bombs you have to your name to trigger a chain reaction and skip the drill down to Vlad, using a well-placed vault to teleport through the back plane into [spoilers] or the many clever ways of bypassing the lava trap which I cannot pull off no matter how hard I try but are very satisfying to see skilled players do feel like the epitome of that 'simple pieces building something bigger than the sum of their parts' thing that makes Spelunky so unique.

That and the very clever shopkeeper changes. Not necesarily that they got harder to rob - they didn't, the methods just changed - but that the sliding scales of revenge and forgiveness turned it into another system to play to your advantage instead of a switch that you flip pretty early on and can never switch back. That was the bit of muscle memory I had the hardest time overwriting in 2 - out of upwards of three thousand runs in HD, I'm pretty sure the only time I beat the game without shopkeeper aggro was getting the low scorer achievement, on account of them dropping gold. In 2 meanwhile, the tendency of the most desirable items to explode when shot and the increasing scale of their response the more of them that you kill combine with the possibility for forgiveness to make many approaches feasible depending on the situation - if I want just this one item, I can quickly dodge out of the shop to steal it without murder, and I'll have them off my back in two levels instead of four, if I can slip past the exit guards without having to attack them - if I want these items, I'll have to buy them from the black market before I set them off, lest they explode - if I get as much money as I can, I can potentially (and this one's brand new to me) buy everything I need! The lack of a single Most Optimal route turns it into an actual strategic decision.

Anyway in short the point you made about breaking the 'most optimal' path and allowing for varying paths and strategies is well put and applies to a lot of aspects of the game, even after the novelty and mystery has passed.

Poor guy, he doesn't even know what the special ending is and how hard it is.

Spelunky 2 is horrible

Well, actually you can kill the ghost in spelunky 1 it’s just extremely difficult because it has 9999 health

This is on sale for 9.99 on ps4 this weekend. Remember you recommending it pretty highly. Been enjoying rogue-likes a lot lately for sure. Kinda miss your analysis of indie games as of late but hope you're well dude

Talking about secrets and stuff. Tunic 🌈

my fav part about spelunky was the mystery i just remember the satisfaction of everything clicking into place right as i accidentaly died on 3-3 with the ankh and all the little things clicking into place once i had the hedjet

Something really cool about this video is that all the secrets and details he mentioned and alot he never have all been discovered through the community, and it all happened in a year.

To be honest i played spelunky 2 first and then i played spelunky HD. i found myself having a really easy time with spelunky HD rather than Spelunky 2. so if spelunky 2 was ever too difficult i just went and played the first one.

easy game

Did you do the review for IGN ? I started listening and this sounds just like their review I read the other day. Like ALOT alike.

Only problem with spelunky 2 is the soundtrack is smaller and worse

Yeah I also love how they force you to reset from 1-1 on multiplayer after dying so I can’t enjoy the game with my friends. Great design! I love how each player can die from RNG bullshit ❤️❤️❤️ and have to restart, the amount of unexplained stuff that confuses the shit out of me is lovely, and way too fucking deep, without I guide you won’t get fucking anywhere in this game let me tell you that. “Oh what’s this room? Oh okay lava is falling on me” I guess it’s just common fucking knowledge to grab the ankh and die to the lava to unlock some weird tree climbing frog boss???? So random combined with the ease of death in this game and lack of real easily obtainable checkpoints, and once again, literally —> NONE<— in fucking MULTIPLAYER. Bad game design is right! Thanks for highlighting these points 🙏

for Olmec shortcut, you can rope up and make olmec come down to you

When i first encountered spelunky, just thaught it was a simple game about exploring caverns and avoiding traps.
I was quite right, but also wrong.

Got addicted with this game here!
Ana's my favourite character in the entire game!
Derek's amazing!!!
GOT ADDICTED TO SPELUNKY I ALREADY PLAYED 100+ HOURS
I watched Twiggle playing the game, good thing my uncle gave me a PS4 with Spelunky 2 already in it (WHICH IS AMAZING)

Playing as Yang has to be the biggest flex ever

I love spelunky from the bottom of my heart. What i love the most is that there are no upgrades, that leaves with having to learn each and every mechanic of the game, even if it means losing your entire run. I like also that no characters have unique abilities, so that everyone can play his favourite one. I don't care how much this game will get old, but its content will always be for me.



Aaaaand i liked the video a lot, you are so good at entertaining, keep it up!

I love the part where i stop playing spelunky cuz ifukin hate it

I love Spelunky in general, but I really love that they banished the frogs to a secret land because even the developer noticed how annoying they were

Exit the Gungeon did this too.

100/10

Ah yes Stunlocky 2 , amazing game design

Spelunky - Perfection
Spelunky 2 - Perfection²

My favorite game since last year. Never get bored for it. It's really great!!

not exactly a sequel, but the Outer Wilds' DLC qualifies

The back layers are my favorite in spelunky 2 and i have never played spelunky 1 only 2 and classic

My Favorite thing about Spelunky is that no matter how much you are going to get pummeled it keeps you on the edge of your seat whether that be playing a low health or dying entirely and being ready to see how the next outcome goes.

could you do a video on hollow knight silk song when that comes out?

I got spelunky 2 like a week ago and I suck at it lol I still can’t get past the first 3 stages

Great video. Loved it. Best part about Spelunky is probably the random nature of everything. Even when you think you're "good" at the game, forgetting to check above you for a spider will always be a quick reminder that you're nothing. HAHA.

Unpopular opinion:
Spelunky hd is utter garbage compared to spelunky 2

"I wish i could play spelunky for the first time again and experience the magic again"
-2019 me

Since both games get ported to switch this Thursday, I’ve been wondering if buying both is a good idea, on one hand I would have both, but I want to start with both equally, what should I do?

Can you turn off the ghost or make it not an issue? This mechanic is a huge turn off for me and might prevent me from purchasing the game at all.

Batman: Arkham City, that is "reinventing perfection" and Spyro: Year of the Dragon long before that.

But how would you make sequel to masterpiece like 'Hades' in that way?

I check every day for an update on when both spelunkys will release on switch, still just summer 2021. :( Derek pls

I find it funny that I find the adaption of actual hell easier than the jungle

Favourite aspect, deathmatch

one bad thing about this game: I can’t play it I’m an Xbox gamer :(

My favorite aspect of spelunking 2 is when I had 11 health and a shotgun in neo Babylon and GLITCHED THROUGH THE FLOOR LEADING TO MY INSTANT DEATH.

Spelunky 2 is bullshit in the best way possible. The shit I've encountered has been amazing to die to.

Good game design: making a game so hard you can never get past just 1-4. But it’s ok, I actually like dying over and over.

My favorite part Is when i got spelunked