How Snowgrave Affects Kris and Why Susie Matters | Deltarune Theory

I also think it’s important to note that Noelle says something right in front of Kris that likely piqued their interest: in the Dark World, anything can be healed with a little spell.
I think the reason Kris opens the Dark Fountain after Snowgrave is because they think if they re-enter the Dark World, they might be able to find and help Berdly, without anyone there the player would be able to manipulate into making things worse. Toriel would never let any child be hurt, and Susie doesn’t like Berdly, but clearly doesn’t want him to die.

I just want to point this one thing out, I’ve seen the motivation for making darkfountin after snowgrave in a bunch of theories. My personal theory is that, ITS FOR PLOT PURPOSES, if doing snow grave would make kris not make the dark fountain then Toby would probably have to make a ENTIRE chapter just for the people who do the specific route which would be a LOT of work

Not hating love ur content but still
I find this detail being a key piece in some theory’s a little goofy silly dumb or other goofy words

Honestly, I can't imagine the existential dread Kris is going through during Deltarune. They obviously KNOW the player is inserting themselves into the story by subduing Kris and taking control away from them to take their perspective in the world, as evident by the cutscenes that play at the end of each chapter. They TEAR US OUT of their own chest and throw us in a cage (in which we can still control where the heart moves, proving that the "heart" is the player themself) and then forcibly limit the players perspective on them at the end of Chapter 2 when they rip us out before crawling out the window (whether or not they were the ones that slashed the tires, it's not certain since we don't know what's going on outside)

All that we know for sure as the player character is that Kris is at least CAPABLE of opening the fountains. They do so right in their own living room. At this point in the story we just have no idea what Kris's motivation is, or if they have more information than us on why opening these fountains might eventually lead to their freedom.

I don't know... I think whatever we choose or try to do in the game, it's coming at the cost of Kris feeling in control of their own life, even if we try our best to keep close to what Kris would want, WE DON'T KNOW THEM WELL ENOUGH TO MAKE THOSE KINDS OF DECISIONS...They're suffering, they can barely move without us, and when we take over they haven't been able to oppose our will except for that brief moment after Neo Spamtons fight, and Kris was so terrified by the implications of that fight that they scream... There's no amount of control we have as the player that numbs Kris to what they're going through...

With all that in mind, I think the underlying message might be that, even if Kris is choosing their moments of clarity and control to do things we find questionable, is it really for us to judge if we're controlling them against their will? We have no right to be doing what we're doing, even if we do "the right thing" that's coming from a foundation of coercion and complete domination over someone else. If we have to resort to that, it doesn't matter what we're doing with that control, it's wrong fundamentally from the very beginning.

So if Kris only sounds different when we're forcing something on him... does that mean he's not against all the Ralsei hugging...?

I've always interpreted the snowgrave ending as Kris's attempt at getting rid of us, as after the fountain is made, Kris holds up the red heart (aka us) in their hand high in the air as the room filled with the darkness smoke; I doubt it would work, but it's plausible Kris would hope the soul gets transformed separately than themself, making us separate entities. (Although I don't see anything stopping the heart from flying back in like earlier, so this plan will fail probs)

I misread the thumbnail as “a gay for help” and tried figuring out what that meant

If I remember correctly, queen still comes after the snowgrave route
she's just very sad because none of her subjects are there
it's more of an "I don't wanna be alone with dead people so i'll go" thing

i think it is important to talk about susie because she is one of the phew characters that make our choices pointless

THANK YOU
I always see people interpret the snowgrave route as Kris "doing what he wants" when all signs point to the complete opposite. (Including the fact that you're still controlling him)
A lot of the fandom seems to interpret Kris as this maniac serial killer entity

Sorry for not matching the tone of the video, but i read the thumbnail as "A gay for help"

"hAPPY fEET dUMBASS"
will always be my single favorite moment involving Susie.

oo this is really good

I was thinking a theory : Kris make another fountain for safe their love one ? Player aka ❤ "da game script" maybe someone middleman of Gaster try influence Noelle for evil intentions. Bring momma goat and susie maybe help in their favor aka Kris . Maybe Kris at one point just realize what exactly is they are? A copy data from another sprite that isnt incomplete personality? When I say Kris is someone copy data I say she probably got Chara mental work but just have authority control all over Undertale before . But thats my theory tho idk . I might spout bs again

Something weird that I’ve found…is that the repetition of the color red*. In Undertale, what color is the SOUL you control? *red What color is Kris’s “SOUL”? red what color is Kris’s eyes when turning evil? RED I think…that red may mean, The Player.

I think frisk and kris have something in common that is very important to note, during the genocide route, Frisk/Chara does things without the player’s input. They deliver the final blow on sans, papyrus, and asgore without your input and also slashes flowey multiple times even thought you only attacked once. And of course, chara destroys the world no matter what you say. This is used as a punishment for the player thinking they were above consequences. Frisk is a blank slate, with no background or motives, leaving them completely vulnerable to our whims, but chara has a backround and a story, and therefore has agency over their own story. I think this is what makes Kris able to defy the player. In the dark world, without any lightners, kris is once again a blank slate, no backround and no character leaving them open to the player’s suggestion. But in the real world, Kris has control. Their soul is not what gives them their personality, but instead a physical embodiment of your control over them. And this is where the differences in the two stories come in. I’m undertale, you control the world through frisk, your actions shape the world that you play in. But in deltarune, you control yourself. Because the same thing happens no matter what you do, your actions tell you more about your own place in the world then Kris’s. You can either be a guiding force, helping a lonely troubled child make friends and work through their issues, or you can be a controlling villain, fighting with the “good” kris just trying to live happily

It think it's also possible that sealing the dark fountains has some sort of physical impact on Kris. While they are more or less expressionless and cold in chapter 1 by chapter 2 they start to show more reactions and in the normal route a little more independence. It also appears that Kris is able to subsite without the soul in chapter 2 for longer than they could in chapter 1 (although that is just speculation). This could mean that each dark fountain sealed slightly enhances Kris''s own power. This is reinforced by the fact that your stats increase after chapter 1. This means that long term the dark fountains could free Kris from our control.

Best Theory I've heard yet

Noelle is very much a sort of parallel to Chara. Being "confused" at first bit realizing the reason was "power" Now where have we heard that before? Chara's diologue at the end of the No Mercy route.
"* My "human soul"...

* My "determination"...

* They were not mine, but YOURS.

* At first, I was so confused.

* Our plan had failed, hadn't it?

* Why was I brought back to life?

*...

* You.

* With your guidance.

* I realized the purpose of my reincarnation.

* Power.

* Together, we eradicated the enemy and became strong.

* HP. ATK. DEF. GOLD. EXP. LV.

* Every time a number increases, that feeling...

* That's me.

* “Chara.""

Seem familiar? Getting stronger, defeating enemies for power? Just saying.

I've sorta always thought it was because you are controlling Kris, like it's said in Undertale, and the end game they control themselves, as when you talk to Torial in the beginning she tells you something along the lines of "you haven't been yourself lately" but ig I didn't think about it to much 🥲

I’m sure that Kris opened the Fountain because they wanted to show the Dark World to Toriel and Undyne.

I feel like you should talk about how the pipis in the snowgrave route only attack Kris. Do you think that means anything?

Perhaps Susie will be a boss in later chapters, where we are FORCED to let susie kill the enemies since there are no other "companions" around.
and well... we did see what happend when her bouncy pumpkin friend "betrayed" her in chapter 1.

For whatever reason, Susie is completely inmune to the player's will. Powerful enough to allow those arround her to ACT on their own even. Like how she was able to pair herself with Ralsei when it was the player choice to make or how she made him learn R action, maybe even Kris himself when they run to shield her from King's atack.
She is capable to cut the conection of the player with the world of the game to an extent. The snowgrave rout is one of the only moments of the game where the choice of the player makes a huge impact in the story, only when Susie is not arround as if her determination was more powerful than the player's.
I think she will be the key to free Kris from the player's control and will put us in the tough position of being the enemy of the characters we've grown to love.

this may be old but I want you to actually read and take this in: every dark world is sealed behind a locked or shut door right? the card castle was behind a closet, the cyber city was inside the computer lab an notice all entrances were closed; and if kris is the one making these dark fountains think about the fact he left his front door wide opened before doing it... what I'm saying is if a dark world is made behind a closed door it can't spread across the world but because he left his door wide opened the darkness can spread (just like queen wanted) so kris's darkness could spread across the globe and cover everything, now will that darkness go into other houses that are closed I don't know... what I think is when the darkness realises it can spread but not enter another building due to a shut door it will instead consume the building making it like a place for rest or a shop, it doesn't sound believable I know, cuz kris made dark worlds behind shut doors where no other building could be consumed yet they still had shops castles mansions etc so again I could be wrong but I just think it's worth pointing out he left his door wide opened as if the darkness will exit the house to consume it and everything else i'd love to hear your opinion on if you think this is the plan or if it would even work an if you want make a whole vid on it

Nothing to do with the video...
But remember that we're able to free the dogs from prison before kris opens a new fountain, which would imply undyne being busy re-capturing them. So, when toriel calls the police, probably Undyne's not there, but outside looking for the dogs...
And who's the other police-person available? Exactly. Napstablook.

Now, you may be wondering "but what if i don't free the dogs?"
Well, either the dogs still manage to get out of jail for x or y reasons, or they don't...
Who knows?

God, I feel like I may not have paid enough attention to details like the things being said in the save points. I usually go through them pretty mindlessly and sometimes I catch myself and try to make an effort to read them but even then, it seems not to really register. I wonder how many little details I missed that would've been good to know even though I did try to see as much as I could (would try talking to every character and interact with everything I could see

the fact that you call the "3rd entity" sloppy story telling, then you have missed the entire point of the story in this game and Undertale.

It was always my idea that during the castle portion of a Snowgrave route, The whole game goes into a sort of "Limp Mode", Trying to get through the important parts of the story and getting to the end before something else goes horribly wrong. The only one who's detached from this is Spamton, who seems to have a sort of disconnect from everything else, Thanks to their interaction with... Whoever was on the phone. Think about it:
The castle's been invaded by Spamton, Seemingly without Queen knowing or caring, Otherwise, She'd of done something.
All the castle's traps and puzzles have been removed, Replaced with Pipis.
Susie and Noelle's entire scene with the Ferris wheel is cut.
Ralsei just tells Queen about the roaring. No Queen boss or mech.
It's as if you went SO far off script, That the Game ITSELF is panicking, Rushing you through what's left and getting you to the end as fast as possible. It adds a new level of creepy to it all, As if the game thought it'd be impossible for you to screw things up this badly.
The game's basically like "There's nothing to worry about, Their choices don't matter." But when you find a loophole around that caveat in Noelle. The game doesn't know what to do.

Andrew Cunningham fans rejoicing

I really like how in Deltarune and Undertale all the blood is on the player's hands

I think the genocide route will lead to a far stronger team which would kill the titans but no one would survive.

But When we do the pacifist route we will fail to the titans due to not being strong enough, and if we do pacifist and pacifist the secret bosses, Jevil said take me with you (I think) so I think if we do pacifist and secret boss pacifist we will get the good ending everyone lives and no titans

I still think to this day that Ralsei is aware of it all being a game. notice how he only whispers to kris about what to do and suggestions.

Glad to see SOMEBODY that doesn’t think that kris is just some player puppet

One thing that I like to mention that is a little random but when Ralsei was speaking of the legend of the trio blah blah blah. He mentions Kris, Susie and Ralsei. Obviously nothing seems out of the blue here at first glance. While yes it could be just ralsei following this so called 'Legend', the legend never states anything about Noelle or Berdly at all. And that could be the fact that they won't be recurring characters in the franchise but I'm thinking of something else that could be possible. _The Legend Is Fake_. I think that the legend could potentially be fake, not that it didn't happen but it's something Ralsei made up because in chapter 2 Ralsei also just mentions another thing where if too many fountains exist it causes some massive destruction across both worlds - I wasn't fully listening but it was somet like that. This felt like more of an excuse if anything that Ralsei made to Queen. It also reminds me of how Ralsei is Kris' red headband or presumed to be. If this is the case then I have a side theory that works well with my original, that Ralsei is the personification of younger Kris. The adventures do kinda seem childish if you think about it, 3 heroes out to stop an evil mighty king and then proceeding to go to a new world and defeat the mighty evil Queen! (See what I did there). These adventures are the types of adventures that feel endless and the type of games you would play with your brother perhaps when you are younger. Anyways how this ties into my original theory is that if Ralsei is the personification of younger Kris then it feels completely natural that the story would change to benefit the younger ones (I know since I have a younger brother myself and we all know how they like to change the rules a lot) and it also makes sense to why options like hugging are available at times when your with ralsei because in a sense it's what Kris probably had as an option when he was younger since it suited his age and mindset. Anyways I think I've talked enough about this but I'll probably think about this in more detail and I'll see if I come up with anything.... After I watch a couple more of your videos first obviously.

Hell yeah! Finally, someone gives Susie the repsect she deserves!
I honestly love her free agency so much. How she can just.....*not* listen to the godlike entity controlling the world. It's soooo badass. I wish Kris was more like that, and I know they do too. I cheer every time she's on screen, and I cheer every time she defies us. I have a feeling, no, a hope, that she'll find out we're possesing Kris and then absolutly kick our ass. She'll lead the charge as everyone beats us up. You bet your ass I'll be smilling as wide as I can as she absolulty obliterates me an exessive amount because god damn am I bad at video games.

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The VAGUE in "*some* people chalk it up to a third entity" lmaooo mood

Could've made a spoiler warning at the start. Now the ending of chapter 2 has been spoiled to me.

Kris seems pleasantly happy in the normal route, apart from Spamton. Noelle talks about old times, and Kris saying they're friends makes her happy too. Then of course, Susie and Ralsei also care for you, but...Ralsei is in an odd position. Wonder what's up with them.

Noelle...

you sound like... papyrus???

Ew I hate this

The weird route.... The one time our choices matter.... We latch on and out of curiosity we proceed, despite Kris giving us options to deviate we proceed....

adk why but i read the title, "A gay for help" and i was so confused lol

"sloppy story telling" thats how it was in undertale, Chara, frisk and the player

Susie - Hey what if we brought Ralsei to our world? 🤔
Kris - PROCEEDS TO OPEN A DARK WORLD IN HIS OWN HOUSE 😆🔪✨️